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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 08:21

Morning bcf
Wow iam, that sounds amazing and what an achievement. Is this a local or national event? I hate exercising but love walking, something like this (but maybe half the distance) would be perfect!

Welcome boys and good luck

Well done new york on not letting that weekend derail you

bug that really is amazing, my goal is 11.4 which will get me to healthy BMI, I haven't seen a weight starting with a 10 on the scales for gosh, 20 years, so could never even imagine that could happen, but that would be a dream for me.....

FD here today, feeling tired but hopefully will just push through till lunch. Had a couple of people comment on my weight loss and wanting to take up 5:2 themselves, I'm counting that as a NSV Grin

Happy tuesday guys

Iamblossom · 24/07/2018 08:30

@BigChocFrenzy can't run anymore, back doesn't like it.

petrolpump28 · 24/07/2018 08:52

Fast day today and I am genuinely hungry and was at 5 am when I woke up.

Iamblossom · 24/07/2018 08:56

@Fortythreeandfatasfuck it's this one- you can walk it, run it, do 50 or 100

We did the Cotswolds Way one last year, terrain was very difficult. Am hoping this one will be flatter.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 09:09

Thanks for the link iam off to have a mooch :)

petrol its awful when you've been awake so early, keep glugging that water, maybe have a bovril or marmite drink to see you through the morning??

Boysmomma · 24/07/2018 09:18

Thanks everyone!

I found this thread on Saturday so read through the intro, thanks BCF and followed the links.

Printed off the recipes and I'm going to try my FD on Wednesday and Sunday this week. To be honest, the no snacking will probably see me lose the remaining 35kg I need to. Down 21kg in the last year but I hit a slump, think I'm not being as strict with myself as I should be so I'm not actually hitting the root cause, snacking and bad eating habits.

I can only dream to be my pre baby weight again, so following advise on the thread I've set several targets.Sorry I can't remember who said what there is some brilliant advise on this thread! My first is to train my body to stop snacking and start new WOL/WOE, I'm sure I'll lose some weight with that as well

Stircrazyschoolmum · 24/07/2018 09:45

Morning all!

My scales say I'm 2kg down.. I'm sure that's mainly water but I can't help but do little celebratory dances all around the bathroom!

Welcome to any newcomers.. I only started a couple of weeks ago myself and everyone is so friendly.

Iam... 100 km is a biggie! A group of us did a 40 miler last May (for my 40th!) and we were all found the first 20 doable, by 30 we had some serious toenail issues and blisters amongst the group and by 40 we were the walking wounded! We did alot of training walks along the Thames path - the bit by Hampton Court is really pretty.

Two tips.. change your socks every 10 miles and try jogging a little every so often.. otherwise we found our legs seized up! Sorry if this is suck eggs, but make sure you are doing your training walks in the shoes you plan to wear for the event... my friend got this wrong on our most recent walking trip and lost all the skin on the back of her heal... very painful!!

quackingduck222 · 24/07/2018 10:27

43 - I think 4:3 is entirely upto you a alternative would be 5:2 with a mini FD. A mini would be about 800-1000 cals.
Re the plateau you just need to push through and ignore the scales for a bit. It will go and it’s easy to get disheartened but push on through and you will do it!

Borris - crossing my fingers that when TOTM goes away you will get a whoosh.

Badger - your off on holiday again your so lucky. 16:8 sounds a great plan for when you are away.

Bug - well done on your FD.

Blossom - wow 30km is bloody amazing. When is your big challenge coming up?

Boys - welcome. My tip would be make sure you drink plenty and if you feel hungry have a drink instead and see if the hunger subsides as quite often a large drink should kill the hunger pangs.

DropZone - well done on the impromptu FD these are sometimes the best.

Bug - 4 weeks Shock but look at how much you lost after that. It’s amazing.

NewYork - well done on your impromptu FD. That’s really good that you’ve done that after having a slightly off track day. Your being mindful and that will set you up for life.
Glad you like the sausages, I usually have them twice a week.

Smiled - I hope the rest of your FD went well.

Badger - you will get there honestly. 5:2 makes the impossible definitely possible. The lowest I’ve ever been (previously VLCD) was 9 stone but that was far from substantial. My natural weight would normally be 10.7-11stone and gone as high as 14stone and anything in between over the years. Once I got to my original target I then lowered it by a stone. Didn’t actually think it would be possible but now Sitting at 7st13 and maintaining a range from 7st12 - 8 stone 2 for 5 months. 5:2 is a life changer!

Bug I still can’t get over how quick you did it 10 months is outstanding.

NewYork- you can definitely achieve your lower weight on this WOL. It is truly amazing.

quackingduck222 · 24/07/2018 10:29

StirCrazy - Congratulations on your loss.

Blossom- just saw your 100km is in September, are you doing the stop overnight or are you doing the non stop?

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 10:33

wow quacking you are tiny.... how tall are you?

Excellent SV stir well done

quackingduck222 · 24/07/2018 10:56

43 - I’m 5ft 3.

Iamblossom · 24/07/2018 11:21

Non stop!!!!Shock

quackingduck222 · 24/07/2018 12:19

Blossom- holy moly. Did you go non stop last year?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2018 12:32

Well done on your SV, stircrazy
A good start to motivate you, to stay focused on changing habits

Think of a 10 on the scales, 43
Then (depending on height) a 9
You can do this, like bug, duck and many others

No snacking has done the trick for many folk here, boysmomma

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2018 12:38

"5:2 is a life changed" - great to hear that, duck

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 12:50

I would love that bcf I'm 5 ft 7in so I doubt I'd ever see a bloody 9 though, at the minute I'd be happy with an 11 Grin maybe visualising it and putting it out into the universe is what I need to focus on Smile

boys no snacking really is a revelation

Stircrazyschoolmum · 24/07/2018 13:43

43 and BCF the no snacking thing is weird isn't it? My DH is very cynical and keeps muttering on about blood sugar levels. He is rake thin and eats like a horse.. he clearly doesn't understand!!

badger82 · 24/07/2018 14:56

I love this thread. So much support and encouragement. There are 5:2 groups on FB but it's not the same somehow, I've not interacted at all.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 16:15

Thanks for the link iam but I'm up north so will have a search for something similar up this end of the country... looks good though Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 16:16

stir you need to show your dh bcf's insulin graphs...

plus3 · 24/07/2018 18:23

Hi everyone...FD today & going well.
Friday after second FD I was 11.13. Felt fairly annoyed tbh: 29th June I was 12st 1and feel I have been bobbing around this weight now for a month.
So we had a takeaway (Indian) and spent the weekend eating & drinking what I wanted (crucially) at mealtimes. Weighed in this morning pre this weeks round of fasting and weighed 12.1.
Which is good, right?
So ...technically with 2 FDs this week, no snacking & keeping around 1800, I should be ???

I am trying very hard to push on through this non-movement - was happy to fast today, but seriously — how long I am likely to plateau for?
I am fairly sure my body likes to sabotage me Grin ...when I was breastfeeding I held onto an extra 11lbs - dropped off 2 mths after the last feed.

bug & duck huge well done - it is so helpful to read your stories, but will admit to be feeling fairly disillusioned today.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2018 18:30

plus Sounds like the weekend is sabotaging your weeks ?

2 FDs with TDEE 1800 would give a deficit of 2600 cals
Eating & drinking "what you want" for 2 days - Friday evening too ? - could easily mean you eat back the FD deficit.

There is a sometimes a delay of a couple of days before loss / gain after and FD / indulgent weekend shows up fully

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 18:37

Fd done at around 518cals, happy with that, how is everyone else getting on?

plus3 · 24/07/2018 19:07

BCF definitely for last weekend - that was very much after my disappointment on Friday - I haven’t done this every week. Even so, this morning I was 12st 1lb ....I get (now)that the scales fluctuate by a few lbs & I am immensely glad that I haven’t put weight back on but I would really love to move pass this now.

Top weight for my height (5ft 8) is 11.10 so not far to go, but it currently feels miles away

Iamblossom · 24/07/2018 19:31

Yes quacking last year was non stop too. I must be mad.

Can I just wave my hand and say that anyone struggling with the no snacking rule you are not alone. I snack constantly. More than I eat regular meals in fact. I graze basically all day.