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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
badger82 · 23/07/2018 13:10

Hi everyone, we had a good weekend glamping, FD planned for tomorrow and then a mini on Thurs which is our travel day to France. First FD after hols planned for Tues 14th Aug....feels like an age away but will do a couple of minis and some 16:8 while we are away

HLBug · 23/07/2018 13:43

Hello all, I'm checking in for a sweaty Monday FD. Even in NE Scotland it's warm (well...for us) 24 degrees and very humid today. I got that holiday feeling earlier when I came out of the supermarket and was met by a wall of heat - warmer outside than in - that really does not happen very often up here!!!

I have the kids today but thankfully they are tired due to a busy weekend. FD not a problem in this heat...I certainly wouldn't want to be inside cooking anyway!

Iamblossom · 23/07/2018 13:45

Morning all.

Am on holiday this week so not fasting today, but eating mindfully. Have walked the dog and been to the gym.

Also walked 30km on a training walk yesterday so feel like my body needs some fuel to be honest.

Off to the cinema - as you do in 30 degrees! Confused

Stircrazyschoolmum · 23/07/2018 13:46

I’ve just had my lunch (whole bag of salad with chicken and prawns) and I’m hungrier than I was before I’d eaten anything... grrr!

I think I might be thirsty.. more water!

Well done to those of you camping/glamping/holidaying.. I need make this a habit before trying that!

BCF.. you are right about non alcoholic tipples. My current favs are the fevertree light tonic waters. Yum!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/07/2018 16:12

Wow iam how long did that take? Every time I go the cinema it is freezing so hopefully they had the aircon on today Grin

Boysmomma · 23/07/2018 16:33

Hi all,

Ok if I jump on board with this? I joined a few other threads on weight loss but I need strict guidelines so i can get myself back into healthy habits!

I think the 5:2 will (hopefully) work for me Grin I went through the first post and got some recipes. Any one have any tips for the first week?

DropZoneOne · 23/07/2018 18:28

Evening! FD here today too. Hadn't planned to but got to 2pm without eating anything so figured I might as well!

Interesting about the set points. My current weight is the post-baby weight that I seem to end up at post-Christmas. Usually I can knock a half stone off. Only this year, I put on way more over winter and I've stuck at the "normal" winter weight.

Having said that, if the weight stays the same but I shift another inch, then I'll be happy. Ive been doing c25k and i can feel muscle under the tum for thd first time in years.

Boys welcome! Read all BigChoc's OP, loads of great advice in there. Plan your fast day, you need to know when and what you will eat. Drink lots as well - my first few FDs I didn't drink enough and got bad headaches.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2018 18:38

Welcome, boysmomma Smile
Weigh and measure yourself - waist, hips - before you start, so you can stay motivated by seeing your losses

Tips for FDs:

  • the day before, plan and calorie count the FD menu for the day
  • glug a teasp Marmite mid-morning & mid-afternoon, to help avoid headaches while you are getting used to fasting
  • No eating back exercise calories on FDs
  • no booze, no junk, especially sugary treats
  • As soon as you finish your last meal, drink a glass of water and then clean your teeth, to reduce temptation

Tips for NFDs:
Keep the 5:2 healthy habits, i.e.

  • NO snacks between meals
  • Keep treats - biscuits, cake, choc, crisps etc - moderate and only as part of a meal
  • Keep to NHS alcohol limits
  • Drink lots of water
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2018 18:40

Anyone on a set point plateau:
If you follow the tips and stay focused, you'll break through.

iirc, both bug and duck had plateaus, but they persisted and now they are now enjoying maintenance.
You'll get there too Smile

OP posts:
HLBug · 23/07/2018 19:33

Well remembered BCF - I stayed at 11st dead for WEEKS. It actually became ridiculous - like some little elves were messing with my scales. It was probably about 4 weeks at least? Definitely a set point for me - that was my "normal" pre baby weight. I did EVERYTHING right. Then, one day I finally saw a 10st something...and about 2 weeks after that I'd dropped about 7lbs in a massive whooooosh. That was pretty awesome. And now I'm happily maintaining - 8st 10lbs today Smile

newyorklover1 · 23/07/2018 19:46

I caved at the weekend and had a night out lots of wine and a McDonald's the day after Sad

But I've brushed myself off and drawn a line under it. Today wasn't a planned fast day but when it got to tea time and I'd only had 250 calories (been a busy day) I thought I may as well.

Thanks to whoever suggested the caramelised onion turkey sausages! They were so yummy!!!

So I usually jump on the scales every morning but I'm not going to after my bad weekend so I'm going to wait until after my second fast. I might even try and do a third fast to undo some damage!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 23/07/2018 19:54

Just checking in... Had all my FD cals at lunch today. Drinking lots of herbal tea this evening! Smile

HonkyWonkWoman · 23/07/2018 19:58

Well done newyork for getting right back on it with a Fd.
We're only human and we can all cave in, the trick is to,
draw a big fat line under it, as you did and just carry on with the healthy eating. Onwards and upwards!!!
Wink

badger82 · 23/07/2018 19:58

Bug that's a massive difference to have been 11 stone for ages and then be maintaining at 8.10....you must feel so different, I've also been there but not for c. 7 years. Had two kids and am comfortably sitting 65 but would like to maintain around 57. It's going to take a sustained effort to get there...she says, drinking a cold glass of pouilly fume

Iamblossom · 23/07/2018 20:46

43 it took 6 hours.

HLBug · 23/07/2018 20:59

Yes badger, keep going! My "ultimate goal weight" when I start 5:2 was 10st 3lbs as that was my wedding day weight. When I got below that I was shocked - I'd never seen a 9 on the scale before. Readjusted my goal a couple more times (9st 12lb then 9st 7lb then 9st 4lb) and finally decided to stop and maintain at 8st 12lb - that took my to 4 stone lost in about 10 months. Little to no exercise. Bizarre to think I'm now 2 stone lighter but after having 2 kids!!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 23/07/2018 21:14

Wow HLBug that's amazing! Well done ✅

HonkyWonkWoman · 23/07/2018 21:17

And if anyone every doubted that 5/2 works! Just read the post above!
Just brilliant....Bug!

badger82 · 23/07/2018 21:53

That is really inspirational bug. Did you MFP and strictly stay in TDEE in NFDs? I'm looking forward to fasting tomorrow, eaten too much today and feel bleugh

HLBug · 23/07/2018 22:02

Yes, MFP every day (still do) except holidays. Stuck to the no snacking rule (this is sooo bloody important) and kept within TDEE most days by embracing 16:8 or 14:10 whenever I could. Also looked at social events as things to embrace, not to be scared of. So, if going out for dinner then make that my only meal that day and just enjoy. Didn't eat back exercise calories or "save" calories for the weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2018 22:10

Inspirational, bug and that you are maintaining so well.

Great walking, blossom
When is your 100 km ?

OP posts:
newyorklover1 · 23/07/2018 22:15

Thanks honky!

Bug that is a truly inspirational story!

I was 8.5 stone pre kids and I managed to get to 12.5 stone last year which is terrible as I'm only 5ft 3.

The lowest I've ever got to after kids is 10 stone 5lbs. If I could get to 9 stone again I would be over the moon!!!

Borris · 23/07/2018 23:30

Another one inspired by bug. I seem stuck on 67kg but am going to just keep plodding along and hopefully I’ll have a ‘whoosh’ too (down not up Grin)

Iamblossom · 24/07/2018 06:04

Very inspirational @HLBug - I hovered around between 9 and 9 5 for years doing loads of exercise and Biwi's boot camps but I never got as low as I am on 5:2 so I am a definite example of someone @BigChocFrenzy cites whose new low was revealed and maintained by 5:2.

@BigChocFrenzy the walk is September 8th. One week after I get back from 2 weeks of lolling on a sun lounger so timing sucks as won't have done any walking then and not sure how many more I will get in between now and then. You can never really mentally or physically prepare yourself for walking pretty much non stop for 100km, but psychologically it would help to get some more chunky walks under my belt.

Just about sticking to tdee this week so far but lots of exercise (and sunbathing Smile)

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2018 07:35

Morning all.
blossom on that holiday, you need to grit your teeth and fit in one long training walk per week,
or maybe alternatively (useful cardio cross-training & takes less time) a weekly 10k run

OP posts:
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