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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
plus3 · 20/07/2018 09:38

Thanks BCF water, water, water. Feeling a bit spaced this morning - don’t think I drank enough yesterday.
I really need to start exercising - I do a bit of yoga, but that is about it...

newyorklover1 · 20/07/2018 09:55

For those of you that have been doing this for a while, how much do you find you lose after the second fast day? Is it just a pound or so or more?

crumbseverywhere · 20/07/2018 09:57

FD for me today. Lentil soup for lunch then salmon for supper.

FD on Wednesday was going well until I got home at 10pm and had to decorate my sons bday cake with chocolate buttons....not great by not a complete disaster.
NFD yesterday also not great due eating said cake and not really counting. It just confirms I cannot have this sugary stuff around as my resolve is still weak.

I think I will have to be a long term mfp user and I loose track so easily and slip into an overeating cycle.

SV is that I have lost 4.9kg of my 11kg target. Surprised how quickly it's coming off at the moment although am sure will slow down . I'm now pre-pregnancy weight. Aim is to get to pre-wedding weight then maybe pre-uni weight.

Hello to today's fasters and welcome if you are new

Naughtysausage · 20/07/2018 11:37

New York - between beginning and end of my fast this week (I do two b2b days) I lost 2.25lbs. (Obv I know this is just me "empty" rather than fat loss).
Fingers crossed I won't put back on the full amount before next tues. But I reckon It'll go up by 1.75 - 2 lbs. I've only been doing this 3 months, but I'd say that's fairly representative of most weeks. Smile

And Borris still sad to hear about your Dog! That sucks.

Naughtysausage · 20/07/2018 11:41

And petrol just start how you fancy. Honestly, if you cut right down two days (to 500 or 800 Cals) it's bound to make a change. You don't need to use any MFP and you can always just follow recipes for FD meals to ensure you're bang on.
Don't be intimidated - some of us just love a bit of tracking data! But you can do what you like.
Just erm, don't snack, or BCF will come for you.

Iamblossom · 20/07/2018 12:05

NewYork I do 6:1 and after my FD I am nearly always 2 pounds lighter

yes petrol DH says chill out too - I find that hard though, am a bit of a control freak in all things

BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2018 12:16

Well done on your SV, crumbs
and on a great milestone, pre-pregnancy weight !
You're on your way to the next milestone

blossom whatever works for you
We all lose weight and maintain that loss in ways that suit our individual mindset, body and lifestyle

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2018 12:18

Personally, I have never used mfp except to check that Chocolate frenzies were 5000 cals ! and always just estimate even on FDs
That might be disastrous for someone else, but suits me

OP posts:
newyorklover1 · 20/07/2018 12:18

Thanks both

I lost 2lb after my first fast but nothing after my third fast Confused I'm on the fourth fast today so hoping I'm lighter by tomorrow!

Stircrazyschoolmum · 20/07/2018 16:43

Hey all

Thanks for the welcome. I’ve successfully completed 2 FD this week on Tues and Thurs. I’m finding eggs and prawns my easiest protein sources and maxing out on salad to help me keep full. I’m not really sure whether it’s better to weigh myself daily or hold out for once a week. Deeply tempted to have some wine tonight but don’t want to undo all my good work!

Wishing everyone a lovely weekend. Might do my next FD on Mon as Tues seems a long way away! xx

BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2018 18:24

Well done on a good 1st week, stircrazy
For consistency of monitoring, it is best to weigh the morning after the 2nd FD of the week, naked, after loo, but before eating or drinking anything

Also, did you measure waist and hips before you started ? It's motivating to add up inches lost every few weeks.
However, many folk notice this anyway, with looser clothes.

newyork You should see a downward trend over the weeks
However, day to day weight varies too much, even without diets; with FDs you also have the difference of full vs empty tum
Most folk see a good initial loss at the end of 2 weeks, but thereafter, weight loss should be considered an ongoing process over weeks and months

OP posts:
Borris · 20/07/2018 21:08

NFD here and I’m soooo hungry tonight and don’t know why. Poss because totm but doesn’t normally affect me this way

Iamblossom · 20/07/2018 21:26

A gluttonous nfd:

Bran flakes, skimmed milk, banana, apple

2 hard boiled eggs, light crisps, cheese cracker,Greek yog with berries and seeds

Bottle of Sol, pint of San Miguel, 2 double gins, lots of nuts

Homemade turkey burger with homemade potato wedges, lettuce and cherry toms.

Loads but all delicious. Demob happy as have a week off.

30 mins on cross trainer, weights and core, 40 min dog walk.

Iamblossom · 20/07/2018 21:27

Mfp has this at 2315 😱

petrolpump28 · 20/07/2018 21:38

Take care of yourself blossom

HLBug · 20/07/2018 22:37

Accidental Mini / FD for me today as my stomach just cannot handle big evening meals anymore. Went out for dinner last night (and wine and gin) but after breakfast today (bit "tired" so croissant, banana, coffee, smoothie) I haven't been able to eat all day. Stomach just so bloated and unsettled. So I need to learn a lesson here I think - big and rich meals with pudding / wine late in the evening are not good for me. Not that they ever were I suppose!!

HLBug · 20/07/2018 22:40

blossom that NFD has nothing on mine yesterday Grin Knowing you can have some more "relaxed" days to eat back the FD deficit is the best part of maintenance. As my last post unfortunately shows, it does need to be all in moderation though or you end up feeling Envy

Iamblossom · 21/07/2018 07:28

Yes HL that is the thing I like about this WOE too, it all balances out nicely.

I'm fine Petrol! Have I said something to you to indicate I'm not? Sorry if so.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2018 09:47

Morning all
Thank goodness only 26C today. Feels lovely & cool
Usual Saturday 2 hrs at the gym this afternoon: pump then spin
Much easier when it's not a sauna

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 21/07/2018 10:24

Welcome onepotato - the FD meals can be spilt however you want. Some people do 2 meals and some do 1 it’s really whatever works best for you. I personally try and go as low carb as possible on a FD. Usually for me it’s eggs cold meats ham / salami and some veggies to fill the plate. I find that really quite filling.

Plus 3 - that’s disappointing to hear. I don’t think it matters what days you fast tbh. Your two fast days are quite close but then there is a big gap between Thursday- Tuesday.

Hockney - glad you had a fab holiday and well done on all the salads and cycling.

NewYork - when I was fasting twice a week at 500 i would usually loose 2lbs on both FDs. Not always mind you but it was usually 2lbs. If I snuck a 3rd FD in a week I would never ever loose anything.

Crumbs - Congratulations on your losses that’s a fantastic amount. Go easy on yourself about the sugar. We can’t be perfect all the time. I can’t be trusted with sugary treats if they are in the house I will eat them so I used to buy a treat per week. When it was gone it was gone but I have been a lot better recently and have regained control.

StirCrazy - Congratulations on completing 2 FDs, how have you found them? I think weighing is personal preference and entirely upto you. Make sure if you haven’t already you no your body measurements.

Bug - your not at TOTM are you? I get random bursts of bloating but can’t put my finger on what causes it.

Good luck to any weekend fasters

Borris · 21/07/2018 11:06

Day 1 of weekend b2b. Am going to a bbq later but planning on just popping in armed with 2 veggie sausages and a Diet Coke (200 cals) and then leaving before temptation strikes!!

newyorklover1 · 21/07/2018 11:08

I've been on this wol for 11 days and I've lost 6lbs!! I'm so pleased!!

I have cut starchy carbs out of my diet completely so that has probably helped. My jeans are feeling looser and I don't feel anywhere near as bloated as I used to.

I have a wedding to attend in 5 weeks so I'm using that as my milestone to hopefully lose another half a stone! GrinGrin I love this!!

DropZoneOne · 21/07/2018 11:18

No weight lost for a 2nd week, but clothes are feeling looser.

I'm a bit disappointed because I'm watching the calories, not snacking, not drinking during the week, exercising.

There's 5 weeks to my holiday, and my goal weight is looking that much harder now 🙁

DropZoneOne · 21/07/2018 11:20

newyork 6lbs in 11 days is amazing!

Borris good luck with your barbecue

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2018 13:12

Well done on your SV and a good 1st week, NewYork

Dropzone For your holiday or everyday life, surely looser clothes are the aim, not a number on the scales

Losing inches means losing fat - sometimes the scales take a while to catch up
Be patient and the scales will move too.

However, many people have noticed that they are "smaller" on 5:2 than they were at the same weight on other diets
This is probably because intermittent fasting also sometimes increases lean mass - especially for men, but for women too - even without boosting exercise

OP posts: