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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 13/07/2018 10:57

Congratulations, clear Grin
Great positivity, patience and you are on your way to goal !

plus Persistence & patience are what carry you through to goal

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/07/2018 11:32

excellent SV plus

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/07/2018 11:57

Plus the thing is you stuck to it and didn't dive into a biscuit tin like I might the progress is happening!! Well done!

I've treated myself to some retail therapy - new trainers for running. New swimming costume and a hat for running Grin

Also am waxed ready for the hols to begin... I'm just too lazy to shave my own legs

plus3 · 13/07/2018 12:05

Thanks Smile Underpants are you ruining in a cossie? That’s really brave !!! Wink

plus3 · 13/07/2018 12:06

running doh ....

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/07/2018 12:10

Plus I wasn't planning on it... could be supremely practical for packing though. Just running shoes a cozzie, hat and maybe some pjs Hmm
Trying hard to block the mental image and the idea of all the chafing

plus3 · 13/07/2018 12:20
Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 13/07/2018 14:38

Excellent non-food rewards, underpants

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/07/2018 19:52

So fd on track today, slightly over at 555 but I'll take that for a Friday Grin

I have been prepping for dinner party tomorrow including salted caramel chocolate pots and not one lick of a spoon to be had Shock I consoled myself with the fact that I will be having a whole one to myself tomorrow Grin

Good luck any other Fri fasters. In 2 minds as to whether to weigh in the morning as had 2 pretty heavy nfds and totm... will sleep on it

crumbseverywhere · 13/07/2018 21:22

mighty how many eggs do you use and roughly how many calories for the omelette?

BCF what do you recommend with regards to nutritional breakdown on a FD? FD today but I have felt soooo hungry all day, even just after eating. I had rice and bean salad for lunch and whole meal pasta and veg for supper so maybe too many carbs and not enough protein?

forty good work on the FD, I’m not sure I could prep delicious food on a FD - I need out of sight, out of mind!

Came in at 528 today so the hunger will hopefully be worth it.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/07/2018 22:21

crumbs well done on your fd but if I were you try having more protein and big salads / lots of veg instead of carbs as it will keep you feeling fuller.

Typical fd for me would be no breakfast, chicken and a huge salad for lunch then maybe a tuna steak with stir fry veg for dinner and some full fat Greek yog if cals left. Have a go and see how you get on

BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 08:18

crumbs To reduce hunger, boost veg & protein, cut right back on starchy carbs
Often helps to cut out fruit totally on FDs

Easy enough if you are an omnivore - just add lean meat & fish
Are you vegetarian - can you eat eggs - or a pescatarian ?
If vegan, you need to add tofu etc and boost beans, lentils, peas

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 08:21

My main FD meal is salmon fillet with a huge mixed salad, dressed with balsamic and a drizle of olive oil
For supper, after training, a Skyr yoghurt with a tbsp chia seeds and a small handful of berries

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/07/2018 08:42

Morning, stayed the same here which is not bad considering. ... wasn't going to weigh but then that's just avoiding the reality of not sticking to nfds, weirdly though I feel smaller this morning.

Hope everyone has a good day Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 10:18

43 Is that snacking / junk / big portions ?

OP posts:
Ipitythescale · 14/07/2018 10:27

Well here we go again Grin have just returned from holiday determined this is the last year I'm going to be this size. I have set myself a goal of losing 2 stone. Back to my 2 fast days and gym 3 days a week. I'm also looking into doing couch to 5k. My dd wants to do park run but I don't even run for a bus. Have done all my calculations and measurements. Just need to do my meal plan today and head to shops for all the good stuff.

quackingduck222 · 14/07/2018 10:48

I’m really happy today as today marks my 2 year 5:2 anniversary. I just need to say thanks to everybody on this thread for the support as it would never of been possible without this thread. The support and encouragement and a kick up the ass when needed has been invaluable.

NoUnderpants Congratulations on your SV.

Naughty- that’s excellent that your not starving hungry the day after your fast. I think in the early days you get ravenous but after a while you get used to it.

Badger - well coming in under TDEE is fantastic. 16:8 is a great way of reducing calories.

Plus3 - well done on your FD. If you are weighing daily just take it with a pinch of salt and do a official weigh in once a week. You will get a downward trend with the weekly weigh ins. Daily weigh ins will be all over the place.

43 well done on your FD and huge NSV for not licking the spoon.

Crumbs - for me on a FD I eat high protein sometimes high fat but low carbs. The carbs will always come from tomatoes as I do eat a punnet of cherry toms on a FD as they take up most of my plate. I normally have eggs 2/3 boiled, ham, tomatoes and either mushrooms or gerkins. Or a 4 egg omelette with milk ham & mushrooms and tomatoes. I find I get stuffed from that.

I’ve had a great week. No snacking and no sweet treats. Actually I’ve had a amazing loss this week despite being up near 3000 cals a day with one FD. I’ve got a 10k tomorrow and have been drinking tonnes this week and eating good as I’m a bit worried about the heat and how I’m going to cope. So times are out the window tomorrow and the goal is just to finish.

Good luck to any fasters today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/07/2018 11:00

Happy anniversary quacking Flowers

bcf it is the monthly struggle I have with wanting to eat everything for about 5 days before totm arrives, I usually scupper it and manage it okay but this month has been too difficult and coincided with having friends over etc, so just more food and drink than usual

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/07/2018 11:06

Good luck ipity keep posting here for support

BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 11:15

Congratulations on your 5:2 anniversary, duck Thanks
and well done on the no snacking week - are you on your way to a permanent healthy habit there ?

Welcome back, pity
Good luck with your goal - you sound very organised & positive

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 11:17

Good luck tomorrow with the 10k, duck
As you say, in this weather the goal is finishing while still feeling ok

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 14/07/2018 19:07

Hi everyone. I'm just popping in to say hello to my many 5:2 friends!

I was 5:2ing for a few months but not very effectively so have put things on pause to sort out my NFDs. So I'm not 5:2ing at all at the moment but instead have been reading "eating Less" by Gillian Riley. It's all about "addictive eating"; I wouldn't have said I was addicted but I clearly fit into her definition. There's a lot in the book that speaks to me. And I've stayed the same weight at just under 11 stone so I'm pleased. I'm not going to restart 5:2 until I've got my "addictive eating" under control.

BCF I wonder if you've read the book as I can hear you (well how I imagine you!) saying many of these things.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2018 20:11

Hi Cheshire That's a good idea to sort out NFDs - "normal" eating - first
No, I haven't heard of the book or author, but there are umpteen books and blogs that have a similar kernel of sensible advice
(and a million that are batshit)
If you've found a sensible one that talks your language, that's excellent

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 14/07/2018 20:52

Ipity - Best of luck for your journey. You will nail it. C25k is absolutely fantastic and will have you running parkruns in no time even if you’ve never run before.

BCF thanks, yes definitely no snacking will continue I’m usually pretty good but the week before last a few snack treats did slip in.

Cheshire - is that book a good read? I’m on the look for a new book.
Also absolutely take my hat off to you for taking control of the NFDs.

calzone · 14/07/2018 22:35

I fasted today and had a sensible dinner tonight with fruit and yoghurt for pudding.

I’m so much better on a FD than a NFD.

I might just fast most days and eat one meal a day.

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