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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 12/07/2018 13:49

Sounds tasty 43
Plus - I hope it’s a banana and a chicken salad , not a “banana and chicken” salad Envy

FriendlyGhost · 12/07/2018 14:10

Decided to do a FD today to compensate for my birthday this weekend and a week off next week. For some reason my head isn’t in it today. I usually manage until dinner but I feel tired, low, a bit crampy and I really want ice cream. I’m wondering if totm is on its way. I haven’t had a period for over two years so I don’t really know if it is or not but I associate feeling like this with it. I had a tomato, cucumber, lettuce and quorn salad for lunch to keep me going and the plan is roasted vegetables with halloumi for dinner. I think that should be a total of around 600 calories which I’m happy with. I just need to keep out of the kitchen because I have bad sweet cravings!

crumbseverywhere · 12/07/2018 14:34

Good tip for the Bol soup, I think I'll try that for FD next week, especially as the weather is now (slightly) cooler.
I'm finding the Tom Kerridge loose weight for good cookbook really good. Lots of tasty low cal recipes a lot of which are on the bbc website. I'm going to try his courgette and ricotta pancakes this weekend, only 270cals a portion but look really good.

crumbseverywhere · 12/07/2018 14:36

Borris - good work with the shorts. I'm still using a hairband to hold mine together so a little way to go yet!

Borris · 12/07/2018 14:46

Crumbs - those pancakes sound nice. Can you report back please?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 15:37

plus As I've explained, weight can naturally vary a couple lb from day to day, or even within the same day.
So, if you get emotional about scales, then don't weigh so often.

As 43 advised, for consistency: weigh naked 1st thing in the morning after FD2, after loo but before consuming anything

Even better, why not go cold turkey on the scales for a while and go by clothes fit;
give yourself 2 or even 4 weeks between weigh-ins, to smooth out blips

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 15:39

ghost If you feel tempted, drink water and clean your teeth
That should keep you on track until FD supper

OP posts:
JunoAndThePaycock · 12/07/2018 17:38

Hello everybody, sneaking back in here after two non-fasting weeks.

Stuck to TDEE while on antibiotics but didn't fast for two weeks as was not feeling 100%. I've noticed that my skin has been very bad since I stopped fasting (it's deeply unfair to be getting spots when you're no longer a teenager). Not sure if the spots are linked to antibiotics/no fasting or if it's just a coincidence.

Fasting today and it's going pretty well though I'm with family and am therefore not in charge of meal planning as I usually am.

Lunch was homemade meatballs and a lovely leafy salad. Dinner will hake with roast vegetables and more salad so will bring things in around 500.

Well done to all of today's fasters, we're nearly there!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 12/07/2018 17:40

Crumbs -yep am 5ft8

Bigchoc - yep used Moseley

Ta1kinPeace - good to know Re: days when I'm stuck behind my desk!

FD was somewhat spoiled yesterday by a load of people descending on our house to watch a certain sporting event! Still 1lb down today though.

Going for a miniFD today to make up for it. Happy Wednesday all hope it was fun Grin

MightyMunki · 12/07/2018 17:42

badger I just cooked some mushrooms and spring onions and prawns in a non stick pan with a touch of hot water, then added the eggs and scrambled them. Looked a mess but tasted lovely.

Ta1kinpeace · 12/07/2018 17:46

Supper tonight will involve a lot of vegetables - because the courgettes have finally kicked in to fruit... just to pick a recipe :-)

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 12/07/2018 19:31

Blossom I hope you survived your sweet cravings today.

Borris excellent NSV! Hurrah for all the shorts Smile

Hope everyone else had a good fast day. I had a tomato and cottage cheese for lunch (it worked out to about 100 cal) and then a big portion of Shashuka (the eggs in tomato sauce thing) for dinner... it was delicious!
I added some peas that were in the fridge and needed eating and a meatball thing - because we made them for the kids the were delicious and I couldn't resist.

I've overestimated to be on the safe side and come out at 505 cal for today Grin

Very happy with that!!

In other news the house is dusted and mopped, ready for us to go away on holiday Hmm
Yesterday it was pouring with rain so I decided not to go for a run. Instead I went for a cycle - because I dropped the kids off on their bikes and then thought "why not"... I got a bit lost and 7km later I made it home, quite soggy.

Ta1kinpeace · 12/07/2018 20:03

New favourite dish .....
whole courgette thinly sliced
one spoonful of pesto
fry
stuff face
nom nom

Iamblossom · 12/07/2018 20:37

No sweet cravings here. I don't do sweet. I just wanted food in general.

Today was a fairly standard nfd:

0% Greek yog with seeds and blueberries, apple and banana

Heinz Chicken noodle soup (128 cals) with two slices of wholemeal bread

Packet of squares crisps, a few handfuls of peanuts, one g&t.

Big bowl of homemade turkey chilli with a steamed courgette

30 minute uphill power walk on treadmill holding weights, 10 minute abs workout, 50 minute dog walk.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 20:52

Welcome back, Juno Good to hear the antibiotics worked
Fasting can help some skin ailments that are hormone-related, so hopefully your skin will soon improve

Well done on your SV, smiled

Good FDs, Juno, underpants
and a good soggy cycle, underpants

Simple, healthy & delic, TiP

OP posts:
Clearskies99 · 13/07/2018 06:41

Reporting in on latest significant milesttone: 2 stone down since April - that's 10%. Long way to go still to get to a happy healthy weight, but I now I WILL DO IT, this is my WOE for life Smile Smile

Have a great day everyone, can't recommend the no snacking no sugar approach highly enough. And keep glugging that water!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/07/2018 07:20

Mmm tip that sounds lovely. I love courgettes and often scrap out middle, mix with fried onions and mushrooms and toms, stir in some pesto, top with a little parmesan and bake in the oven Smile

Wow well don't clear that's an amazing loss!!!

Fd today, I've had a bad week on nfds so not expecting to lose tomorrow but trying to limit damage with another Friday fast (I hate totm and hormonal urges to eat) Sad

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 13/07/2018 07:36

Wow that's loads well done Clearskies - no snacking is a revelation for me too! Smile

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/07/2018 08:27

I was disappointed when I weighed myself - 89.5 this morning... but ahem.... TMI ahead...I've just a seriously giant poo (sorry for the TMI)....

I think I'm going to weigh again and see if there is a difference Grin

quackingduck222 · 13/07/2018 08:27

Badger - I hope your FD went well. I hope you have a lovely holiday.

Yeah well done Borris, you are shrinking before your eyes.

Don’t worry plus3 it’s just a blip, are you weighing daily? You will loose after a FD and it’s normal to regain a bit and then loose more on your 2nd FD and usually create a deficit for the week.

Friendly- That sounds quite possible I’ve found any type of diet messes with my cycle.

Juno - welcome back, I hope your spots clear up soon. Your right it’s so very unfair.

No underpants well done on your fast, I hope you have a lovely holiday.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/07/2018 08:28

That was still a 0.3kg loss on last Friday... but I was hoping for a little bit more. I have had a really really good week and we fly next Thursday to France.

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 13/07/2018 08:35

89.3.... that is after big mug of (herbal) tea and a big glass of water.... YIPPEEEE! I’m really pleased with that!!

Naughtysausage · 13/07/2018 08:54

Ha! Underpants. Well done. Am already jealous of your delicious croissants!

I'm not hungry for breakfast agAin this morning, so going to have a coffee and wait for lunch. It's an NFD today but yesterday turned into a bit of a hungry disaster after dinner so wish me luck!

My courgettes are still weeny. I don't think I could scrape the middle out, but that sounds delicious!

badger82 · 13/07/2018 09:28

Thanks Quacking. FD was postponed but I was attempting 4:3 so it's not a disaster. I ended up well under TDEE as managed 16:8. Holiday isn't for a few weeks but getting into the mode now.

Good luck Friday fasters! I'm home with the kids today which is always a challenge but have planned meals so NO SNACKING should ensure I make it under TDEE

plus3 · 13/07/2018 10:19

Morning everyone... FD went well yesterday - the chicken salad (no banana Grin was much more filling (? More protein) so maybe will ditch the bread for future FDs

I did weigh myself this morning = 11st 13. I didn’t mean to annoy anyone with my scale woes, and I do really get that there are fluctuations....I am just being impatient.

Good luck to all you fasters today

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