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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 12:48

That’s three of us then! That’s brilliant snail, we’ll done.

whatthe a holiday is a great motivator.

Tucking into an omelette and salad now. The hunger was ok this morning, last time it hit me between 2-4....

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 07/06/2018 12:54

Good afternoon everyone! I’m having a good NFD today Smile FD is planned for tomorrow and I’m feeling like this week is really quite awesome.

Today for lunch I had salad with Tuna, some Parmesan (little leftover bit in a lot that was annoying me because it was such a tiny amount) and plenty of avocado. Keeping the carbs low now but I will probably splurge later.... —I’ve made a delicious lemon cake for the kindergarten thing so I have to perform quality control—

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/06/2018 13:06

well done what and well done lean surely after your b2b you'll hit the 12's tomorrow??

snail that is very frustrating but sounds like low carb is the way to go until maintenance? Good luck

Subway salad, and orange and yogurt for lunch, pretty stuffed now!
Decided to miss event this afternoon as professor dumped a last minute presentation on me for monday Angry so biscuit avoidance is not a problem now....

Hope everyone fasting is managing okay Smile

Naughtysausage · 07/06/2018 13:24

Hello!

Happy birthday Honky!
I love peonies. The season is ridiculously short, but they're my favourites.

This morning after my b2b I reached goal weight! Grin because it's straight after a b2b I know it won't stay down there. And I haven't decided whether this is the right weight to stay at either. But, still, an achievement eh? Before I started 5:2 I didn't know how I'd ever get back down here!

snailhunter · 07/06/2018 13:40

God, having looked at some websites, the idea of low carb is making me feel really depressed. I love bread, I love fruit, I hate big wodges of fatty meat, I hate eggs for breakfast...bah, I am clearly just in a really negative frame of mind today. I will shut up and stop moaning and have a proper think about how it might work for me, and how I could balance it with family meals.

WreckTangled · 07/06/2018 13:43

Not quite honky Smile

Snail I love carbs!

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 13:47

Huge congrats Naughty, that’s a great achievement. So many people doing well.

snail not sure I could give up carbs either, I love them. I don’t think much beats a crust of sourdough bread with butter

Maybe smaller portions of carbs would help?

Iamblossom · 07/06/2018 13:49

I did Atkins for about 4 years.

Can't actually believe I did that now!

Iamblossom · 07/06/2018 13:50

And never got below 9 stone

Elsasalterego · 07/06/2018 13:56

Hi all, I'm back here after a couple of years away... I lots tons of weight doing 5:2 and learnt to lower my potion size in general and to keep fit- in fact 4 months ago I was the fittest I have been in over 10 years. However I had a fall in February and I am waiting on surgery- Since then I have ballooned in size, nine of my clothes fit and I am scared to step on the scales. The last couple of days I have been trying to make healthier choices but I know this works and so I am here to feel part of the 5:2 community again- 5:2 sure works but the 5:2 thread works waaay better!

So for my stats:
Age 42
Height 5'7"
Weight: I'll get the courage for a weigh-in in the morning!! My guess is approx 80 kg.

First fast day will be tomorrow.

Iamblossom · 07/06/2018 13:57

Welcome back elsa and sorry to hear about your fall. Am sure you will see the results you want again and everyone is ridiculously friendly and supportive on this thread.

snailhunter · 07/06/2018 14:06

Thank you for your support, fellow carb-lovers! Yes, maybe reducing is the answer, rather than cutting out or going super-low. One of the main reasons I love 5:2 is that I don't actually have to give up any foods that I love - lovely, good quality food and baking is a big part of my life. (In a healthy way, I might add.)

Well, I'll think on it over the next few days. I guess it all comes down to how important 3lb is to me in the grand scheme of things!

And welcome elsa! Sounds like you've had a horrible time of it after an amazing success. You can do that again, no problem. (The success, not the horrible time!)

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 14:14

Oh my gawd I’m hungry today Grin

That’s amazing naughty well done!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/06/2018 15:41

yay well done naughty Flowers

Mmm all this talk of carbs is making me drool...

Welcome elsa and good luck!!!

calzone · 07/06/2018 16:02

No snacking for me today.

Result 💪🏻

Brunch was 2 Linda McCartney’s sausages, 2 eggs, 2 hash browns, fried onions and mushrooms and toast.

Dinner at 6pm will be an M&S ready meal.....think it’s fish.

WreckTangled · 07/06/2018 16:48

I've made it! Haven't eaten anything all day and still need to take dd swimming so won't have dinner until about half six. Chicken and salad.

badger82 · 07/06/2018 17:34

Nearly there fasters!! I've not eaten anything yet. Got dhal for dinner which is the best fast dinner I've found from the book yet, delicious!! Can't wait

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 18:02

Made it through the afternoon, just a train journey to go, even my emergency apple has survived intact (I want it for pudding with a little bit of cheese!)

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 18:13

Ooh badger which book? Could do with a good Dahl recipe

WreckTangled · 07/06/2018 19:06

Kitchen closed on 427 Smile

Elsasalterego · 07/06/2018 19:22

Does everyone on here do lots of exercise to help with the 5:2? I've never tried to lose weight without doing at least 20 mins a day of either running/spinning/boxfit etc. I am hating being slowed down- I am a high energy person and being sluggish really effects my mood but I have at least another six months unable to partake in exercise in the way I was.

bluerunningshoes · 07/06/2018 19:27

kitchen closed at around 500

exercise, not anything extra. I walk a lot, about 2m a day + (leisurely) swimming and hiking and gardening.

badger82 · 07/06/2018 20:08

Just the main 5:2 diet book - it's in the 600 day recipe section although it's only 326
It's delicious!!
Kitchen closed on 450. Fingers crossed for good SV tomorrow morning Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 20:50

Sorry to hear about your accident, Elsa but welcome back

Well done on your SV, Akire
Sounds like you've adapted more to fasting now and had a good week.

and well done on a birthday SV, honky
That's good progress and sounds a fab day

You'll be in the 11 stone somethings very soon, calzone
Remember the healthy 5:2 rules on NFDs, especially no snacking

You're heading for the 12 stone somethings, NotLean and then the healthy BMI milestone
You'll have to change your handle then to NowLeanAndMean Smile

snail You might lose the last 3 lb at 1lb every 6-8 weeks, if you are quite lean now
Or it could be that 5:2 has changed your body composition, as it does sometimes, so you have lost the fat you wanted - and it is specifically fat we need to lose - but also built muscle.

What is your BMI and waist / height fraction (waist at narrowest point) ?
Do you genuinely see 3lb excess fat somewhere ?

If so, is there anything other than healthy carbs to change - cutting out snacks, booze, sweet crap ?
Otherwise, Mosely's Mediteranean low carb can be with fish, olive oil, nuts, full fat yoghurt, rather than meat
He also recommend lots of beans, peas, lentils which help insulin control

um, blue I was told 2 weeks with the dryers

then another pause while the insurance take more pix
then redo the putty, let it dry
put on the wallpaper, let it dry
paint over, let it dry

and then there is replacing the carpet …

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 21:02

Well done on your FD, blue, wreck

and on the no snacking, calzone

Elsa Some 5:2ers exercise, some don't
However, fat loss is usually 90% diet, 10% exercise even for pretty active people

Exercise is important for physical & sometimes psychological health and for avoiding regain
It also can zap flabby bits and can be a useful boost to break a plateau

An active person raises their TDEE, which helps those who are short and those getting older, which happens to us all.

What exercise did you used to do that is not currently possible ?
Can you do something else instead: swimming, walking, cycling, lifting weights while sitting or lying on a bench ?

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