Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
GrannyPenny · 06/06/2018 15:11

Checking in quickly for accountability. Am trying to wean myself off sugar. Again. 6:1 I can manage on maintenance but I've been substituting proper food for bags of sweets/donuts, etc. Not good, especially as I've realised that exercise on too much sugar has been responsible for some horrendous workout/ run experiences lately.

So many temptations today, so I'm here to have to report back at the end of the day. I shall think of you all glaring at me when my resolve wavers ...

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 06/06/2018 15:19

Not having a great day today. Hope all the fasters are doing well.
We have a parent afternoon thing at kindergarten tomorrow... so it's unlikely that tomorrow will be a FD.

I was generous with my calorie count yesterday and it came out around 1400 calories I think. So a good NFD.

I have managed to achieve some really good walks this week. I find walking really therapeutic Smile and I've been for a walk every day so far this week. Monday I also did some strength training. All in all a positive week so far.

CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 15:57

I’m HUNNNGRY!!!

Only a couple of hours now til dinner... I think tonight is going to be hard

calzone · 06/06/2018 16:19

Camel.....drink a marmite drink......it gets you through.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/06/2018 16:32

stay strong camel glug some water...

Mmmmm Iam can I please come to yours for tea, that cake looks amazing!!!

Good luck granny sugar is so bloody addictive!

FriendlyGhost · 06/06/2018 16:43

Camel i’m also hungry and I’m making the kids’ tea. I came on here to remind myself that i’ll regret it if I crack now. Dh gets home in 2 hours and I can eat then.

WreckTangled · 06/06/2018 16:45

I decided to do a NFD. Can't get through boring QI meetings without food.

HonkyWonkWoman · 06/06/2018 16:51

I'm trying for a MiniFD to give me some leeway for my Birthday tomorrow.
Had a reasonable lunch.
I'm hungry but I've just made a Marmite drink.
Planning on Turkey steaks and lots of veg for later.

CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 16:51

NEED to get some green tea

snailhunter · 06/06/2018 16:52

Joining the hungry crew! Added to that, DS came home and announced that he failed his year-end maths exam, mostly because he didn't read the questions properly. Sigh. Oh well, I guess year 7 exams are mostly about getting used to exams. Hopefully he has learned from this experience!

HonkyWonkWoman · 06/06/2018 17:25

Hope he's not too disappointed snail! It will be a good lesson for him for the future though!
Here's a Green Tea to commiserate! Brew and keep you going!

CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 17:27

DH is making toast the barstard

snailhunter · 06/06/2018 17:36

Thank you honky! And tomorrow I will swap it for a gin. :) I think he is secretly disappointed but won't show it. I am quite hands-off with schoolwork - I've always made it very clear that they have to put in the effort, not me, so hopefully this will spur him on!

Oh, God, cantankerous, the smell of toast. I suggest LTB.

Naughtysausage · 06/06/2018 17:44

Camel have my first LTB.

Day 2 of B2B here. Dinner planned after the nursery run. Aaaaaaaaand I might be having another prawn omelette! It was so good yesterday and I had a complete imagination failure today. So I'm eating it again and I'm excited.
(Anyone use any exciting herbs/spices?)

HonkyWonkWoman · 06/06/2018 17:50

Hi Naughty I sometimes chop a Spring Onion up and mix in with the eggs. I just put mixed herbs in it!
Enjoy!!!!😋

CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 17:58

Thanks all. Trust me he will pay

He did make me dinner of fish, salad and rice so that’s good

I’ve eaten now a feel too full (?) despite really not eating much but I’m sure I will be starving later!! Ah well, tomorrow’s morning I can eat anything I want (nom nom)

Naughtysausage · 06/06/2018 18:33

Honky I popped a spring onion in, an handful of peas and half a chilli. Also a decent sprinkling of "garlic Italian" mixed herbs. It was lurvley.

Camel DS has also just insisted on toast and jam. Bloody karma.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/06/2018 19:09

Happy birthday for tomorrow honky Cake

Mini fd finished at 906cals, just had courgette and tomato omelette with MASSIVE salad Grin if the weather is like this tomorrow snail I might join you in a hin or two...

Angry for all of those having to deal with toast!!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/06/2018 19:10

gin obvs Grin

NotLeanButMean · 06/06/2018 19:28

Happy birthday for tomorrow honky!

FDs gone well today, going to try and do my first b2b tomorrow as it will be a weekend of celebrations as I hand in my final piece of uni work ever on Friday Grin

Was 13st 1 yesterday, hoping to possibly see the magic 12 Friday morning. Just to make the day even better Grin MFP tells me the last time I was under 13st was February 2016!

calzone · 06/06/2018 19:38

Made a fabulous Spicentice chick pea curry for dinner.

Kitchen closing at 700 calories.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 19:52

granny Have you tried 2:5ing sugary crap,
i.e. have one sensible portion on 2 NFDs per week, no other time

Well done on your FD, calzone

So near to 12 stone something, NotLean
Even if not on Friday, you'll get there soon Smile

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/06/2018 19:56

Fingers crossed you get into the 12s on Friday lean

Curry sounds lovely calzone

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 06/06/2018 19:59

Ooooo! Help me please fasters... I came off the 5:2 wagon this last week due to a terrible life event Sad
I desperately want to get back on it. It was working really well
for me. The first time I have ever done anything like it & was so pleased.
Just looking for some inspiration and encouragement I suppose Confused

calzone · 06/06/2018 20:33

Hope you’re ok risingsun......

Tomorrow is a new day.

Try skipping breakfast first and see how you get on. Xx