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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS
==========

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START
=============

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips
===========

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice.
Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine.
Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat.
Just be patient & you'll break through.
However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight.
Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)


Useful MN Threads
================

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health
================================

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile
OP posts:
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badger82 · 08/06/2018 08:40

Going to smash a NFD by doing 16:8, I found that really helps keep calorie count lower

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2018 07:59

Well done on your SV, Unicorn
Good start; you're another one with success on the 3 weekly miniFDs plan

Well done on your SV too, wreck
You can look forward to the 8 stone somethings soon

Good luck, fasters !

Free food or free drink are very tempting pitfalls for all of us, but they can undo a lot of your hard work.
Alcohol & sugary crap pile on waist fat especially more than other kinds of calories, as well as being damaging in excess for longterm health

OP posts:
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quackingduck222 · 08/06/2018 07:59

Well done everyone on your FDs yesterday.

Snail - after looking back on my scales app I was stuck on the last 2lbs for ages it wouldn’t budge. Once I gave up all hope and made my piece with not getting that low I had a whoosh overnight. I’d say hang in there as actually it may be your body fighting your new low weight.

Wow daisy that’s a very late tea but well not on not giving in before hand.

Pop fantastic NSV that’s definitely some inches that have disappeared. And a big well done on your B2B.

Cake well done on your FD sounds like it was very tough so congrats on nailing it. Good luck for your B2B today.

Open eyes well done on the FD and no snacking that is fabulous.

Calzone - is your TDEE quite low? Hope you have a smashing time tonight.

Cheshire good luck for today. You will smash it.

Badger the NFDs can be quite important. I tend to judge my week as good/ bad depending on the NFDs and how I’ve done.

Unicorn wow 6lbs is awesome congratulations. That’s great that your TDEE is high. Your so lucky Grin

Camel good luck for your FD today.

Wreck that’s fantastic news hope you have a great night.

I found my FD really good yesterday. Thursday is my awkward day that can go very wrong so it’s back to being a FD. Being busy helped massively and I intend to do a repeat next Thursday to stay on the straight and narrow.

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DaisyandTim · 08/06/2018 07:54

3lbs down this morning - woohoo! So that’s the last of the gain and a new pound, i’m 1lb off loosing 2st now, I’m so pleased.
Well done wreck and unicorn on your SV’s and to Pop and open on your NSV’s. good luck to all the fasters today!

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openupmyeagereyes · 08/06/2018 07:48

No change for me from last post FD weigh in though I was a pound lighter than yesterday. I’ve lost 2cm from my waist since before I started and a cm each from thighs and calf. Most of my fat sits below my waist line Grin

I’ve ordered the original fast diet cook book for some inspiration!

Badger you’re right, NFDs are so important too.

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OrangeRabbit · 08/06/2018 07:47

Congrats on all the SVs, everyone Grin

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/06/2018 07:16

That's fab wreck enjoy your night out

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/06/2018 07:15

Fd here also Cheshire
Well done on the skirt nsv pop I was going to say is there any chance you can have it altered?

Good luck for weigh in open and any others weighing in today

6lbs is fantastic unicorn

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WreckTangled · 08/06/2018 07:15

Another pound off. Now 126.4lb. So close to hitting the 8's.

We're going to the racing tonight with a dj playing afterwards. Three course meal and all alcohol included Shock I'll dance some of the calories off I promise...

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CantankerousCamel · 08/06/2018 07:11

Fasting again today, just til dinner when the weekend will begin. But I think fasting this morning will set me up for that!!

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Unicorn74 · 08/06/2018 06:55

Hi all, im checking in after a fabulous 2 weeks. Ive done 5 mini fasts of 850cals. The scales are being kind and showing a 6lb loss. This WOE seems to be working i have quite a high TDEE but im finding it difficult to eat to it cause sfter fasting i just dont feel that hungry.
Love reading all threads on here its keeping me very motivated.
Good luck to all today. X

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cakegoblin · 08/06/2018 06:54

I'm fasting today too Cheshire, second day of b2b. Good luck! Looking forward to weigh-in tomorrow, have been pretty good this week thanks to kicking the sugary stuff which always made my eating more compulsive. Calzone I'm with you on the skipping breakfast, I don't even want it any more either, it's definitely working for me. Pop my jeans are also loose and the belt is on it's tightest notch! Am hopefully soon going to be able to try on all my pre-kids clothes -and then bin them and go shopping-

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badger82 · 08/06/2018 06:12

Static at 66.9 but to be expected as last weekend was heavy, would have eaten back my deficit for sure. This weekend should be better, those NFDs are as important aren't they!

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CheshireSplat · 07/06/2018 23:14

Just catching up with thread ahead of FD tomorrow. I see Elsa and underpants are also fasting tomorrow. Anyone else? Quite looking forward to fasting on a Friday to feel all well and healthy and light on Saturday morning. Having 2 cups of tea and one Bovril until tea worked well for me on my last FD so I'll do the same tomorrow. Harder tomorrow though because I'll be on the school pickup at 3.30 and can't avoid the kitchen as I can at work. Sure I'm motivated enough though!

Pop if you like it is it worth paying to get it altered?

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 23:02

Congrats on your Skirt Falling Down NSV, pop
Maybe you can find it a nice new home

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calzone · 07/06/2018 22:45

I ended on 1263 calories today.

Think skipping breakfast on NFD is key for me......

Going for another NFD tomorrow but planning food now.

Brunch will be eggs and beans and mushrooms with fried onions.

Difficult as tomorrow we are having a break from GCSE hell and going to Jurassic World at 6.30pm so don’t know where or when we will eat.

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PopGoesTheWeaz · 07/06/2018 22:21

Finishing up day 2 of B2B. Really ooking forward to breakfast tomorrow too, and first run in a week, and date night so will likely go over TTDD but I should be okay for the week.

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openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 22:14

Just a quick FD check in for me.

Blimey HLBug that’s amazing weight loss. What an inspiration you are.

No snacking today (except a cup of tea with milk at 6). Due to circumstances dinner was at 8 so I lasted all afternoon, quite proud of myself.

I’m still doing 800 cals at present, I’ll see what the scales show in the morning.

Well done everyone fasting today, I’m looking forward to a proper breakfast tomorrow. Good luck Friday fasters.

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HLBug · 07/06/2018 21:50

Happy Birthday honky and massive congratulations to naughty!!! Are you reassessing your goal or starting maintenance now?

snail I slowed down towards the last few pounds too. I decided to chill out and just accept it and, miraculously, a couple of weeks later the scales dropped themselves without me having to do anything extra (or take anything away). So my advice to you is to keep the faith, but also ask yourself if those extra 3lbs actually matter? Would you still be the same clothes size, would you look noticeably different, would your BMI move you into a different category (eg overweight to normal)?

Hello elsa and welcome back into the fold. My exercise levels were spectacularly low until relatively recently due to problems following childbirth and I still managed to get to goal weight (4 stone lost in 10 months).

smiled Thanks for you, hope you're doing ok.

Today was meant to be a FD but life (and lunch) got in the way. So I'll be 6:1 this week - interested to see if I can still maintain on that or not. I've actually dropped another 1.5lbs over the last month so, despite eating more on NFDs and doing 800 cal FDs I'm still loosing a bit.

How was your killer abs class BCF? You're really not having much luck with your apartments at the moment! Are the fans on 24/7? An you take yourself away for a long weekend somewhere to get some respite?

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bluerunningshoes · 07/06/2018 21:47

well pop if that's not a great sv I don't know what is :o

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cakegoblin · 07/06/2018 21:45

Checking in after a gruelling day, a run this morning, only a miso at lunch and the milk in 4 cups of tea all day until 15 mins ago when I got in after night course and inhaled my Famous Prawn Omelette. However I had a flash of inspiration while cooking which led to it being SERIOUSLY upgraded by a cheeky squirt of sriracha over the top Grin

Well done everyone fasting today, fingers crossed that the scales are kind to you all tomorrow morning!

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PopGoesTheWeaz · 07/06/2018 21:43

Had to come home after the school drop offs today to change as my skirt literally wouldn't stay on. I'll take it as a NSV, though sad to lose that skirt. Is a great colour. Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 21:22

Well done, nailing a tough FD, daisy and your handbag is thankful it was spared a gruesome fate

OP posts:
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DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 21:20

Thanks badger will look that up.

FD done at 530, only just had dinner as trains were massively delayed Angry but I impressed myself with my ability to hang on and not try and eat my handbag! Well done all the other rasters, fingers crossed for a good weigh in tomorrow

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 21:02

Well done on your FD, blue, wreck

and on the no snacking, calzone

Elsa Some 5:2ers exercise, some don't
However, fat loss is usually 90% diet, 10% exercise even for pretty active people

Exercise is important for physical & sometimes psychological health and for avoiding regain
It also can zap flabby bits and can be a useful boost to break a plateau

An active person raises their TDEE, which helps those who are short and those getting older, which happens to us all.

What exercise did you used to do that is not currently possible ?
Can you do something else instead: swimming, walking, cycling, lifting weights while sitting or lying on a bench ?

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