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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 20:41

smile I am back on it this week too.

I have just finished my second fast... though it seems to be going a lot easier than I remember, a few periods of hunger today but it’s actually been fine

I keep wondering if I’m doing it right!! But of course I am having a protein shake before training, I just don’t know if I could train to the extent I do without that.

Still, if it leads to results, I’m happy

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/06/2018 20:47

Flowers smiled

HonkyWonkWoman · 06/06/2018 20:50

That sounds yum Naughty will put the extras in next time!
Enjoyed my Turkey steaks, lots of garlic and herbs and a huge Salad.
Followed by frozen Cherries, heated in microwave with Truvia and topped with Ff Greek yoghurt.
That's me for today!😋

CantankerousCamel · 06/06/2018 21:43

Honky great use of calories!

My mind is working overtime as usual, thinking I could get a fry up in the morning with the boy (he’s off to the fracture clinic at 9.40) but I will almost certainly just have yogurt, granola and perhaps a posh soya coffee :-)

Lunch will almost certainly be scrambled egg with a piece of toast and cup of tea and I’ve just got fajitas with salad and sour cream for dinner tomorrow night

I’m still feeling okay and it’s only an hour and 15 til bedtime now.

calzone · 06/06/2018 21:59

Don’t want to trigger anyone but Oppo have brought out some low calorie cheesecakes

Sainsbury’s for £1.50

I will have one tomorrow I think

PopGoesTheWeaz · 06/06/2018 22:09

Flowers smiled Hope you are well x

I'm back after a week off and taking it one step at a time, which for me means not going back to full throttle with exercise regime and fasting while also getting back into the swing of work and school and juggling social commitments.

So this week I'm focusing on fasting and planned it all out to reduce temptation. So I'm busy during the day, kids tea was taken care of by babysitter so I wasn't tempted and dinner was portioned out and ready to go.

Just finished FD1 and feeling really good about it. Definitely took some planning but it can be done. If you are ready, give it a go, but don't try to pull on too much at once. But sometimes, planning and being in control of something like this makes me feel more in control of life in general x

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:13

Sorry to hear you suffered such an event, Smiled
I hope you are OK Thanks

You know this WOE works for you:
Choose & plan an FD this week - copy an FD menu that worked for you last time
Also, keep to the same kind of choices on NFDs that you made before,
especially no snacking and NHS alcohol limits^^
Focus … then enjoy the SVs and NSVs again.

Review progress every 2 weeks say, Camel
As long as it works for you, carry on like this
If weight loss stops, then we can all help you tweak your 5:2

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:16

Well done on nailing your FD, pop

and your mini, honky
Enjoy your birthday tomorrow Thanks

OP posts:
FriendlyGhost · 06/06/2018 23:28

Hope you’re ok Smiled Flowers
FD done. My tummy is rumbling and I want to go to bed but dd2 has other ideas. I’m looking forward to breakfast already!

openupmyeagereyes · 06/06/2018 23:29

Sorry about your difficult times Smiled Flowers

Happy birthday for tomorrow honky Cake

Well done to today’s fasters and good luck to those fasting tomorrow.

Weighed myself this morning and I’m 3 pounds lighter than before my first FD. I definitely feel a bit slimmer. However I had a magnum tonight and some biscuits earlier. Self sabotage seems to be my mo of late. I’m hoping a FD tomorrow will keep me on track.

I dug out my body analyser scales which I haven’t used since ttc (ds is now 4) and annoyingly they show me 3 pounds lighter than my regular scales which I definitely think are more accurate. I was hoping to switch to these but I don’t think I will now.

GrannyPenny · 06/06/2018 23:59

Happy to report no sugary carbs crap has passed my lips. Although if I had a pound every time the thought of wine gums popped into my head I'd have enough money to start my own sweet shop.

I've still had a sugary fix - two oranges and half bowl frozen blueberries but only after my dinner.

Big Choc - I don't think 2:5 will work - I am untrustworthy and the cravings are really bad at the moment.

hoochymama1 · 07/06/2018 06:35

Happy birthday Honky
So true for me too Granny chocolates...my nemesis, however I only had three last night, generally I aim to eat the box Grin
I think the biggest thing for me now is to know how to eat on NFD.

CantankerousCamel · 07/06/2018 06:39

Fast is broken! Hello coffee with milk!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 06:52

Phew, another 31C day ahead
and I have industrial dryers on in the bathroom and lounge, for the next 2 weeks, to dry out the walls & floor after a big leak
< wipes sweat from thread >

Upside is that the hot humid dryers forced me out to the gym last night despite 31C and no air-con there:
1 hr spin, 1 hr pump - both with Norman the Muscle Mountain - and 25 mins walk outside.
Downside is that my sleep is disrupted, but I‘ll do at least do the Killer Abs class tonight if I don‘t fall asleep after work.

OP posts:
FriendlyGhost · 07/06/2018 06:56

Happy birthday Honky!
A NFD here today. I just weighed myself and I’ve lost another pound so last week’s break and all the food didn’t do any damage. Only about 4 pounds to go to Pre children weight although that is slightly misleading because I was able to exercise a lot more so had a higher percentage of muscle. I’m a lot wobblier than before.
I’m looking forward to my first coffee now. Shred first though!

CantankerousCamel · 07/06/2018 06:56

BigChoc that sounds hellish.

I will be running about a lot today, eldest has fracture clinic, working a fair bit and have CrossFit at 12.30. I was going to miss today but it’s deadliffs and I love deadlifts

WreckTangled · 07/06/2018 07:07

Happy birthday honky!

Fd for me. Well I'm going to try anyway.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2018 07:10

Happy Birthday, Honky Thanks

Best wishes to your eldest, camel and enjoy your deadlifts

Well done on your SV, openup
These analysers can be very unreliable unless expensive.
I recommend you monitor waist (narrowest point, usually 2“ above the navel) every 2-3 weeks,
because this is a good indicator of visceral (around organs) fat, which is the important type to reduce

Well done on your SV, Ghost
Intermittent fasting, such as 5:2, can often increase muscle even without increasing exercise - this is why many folk report being "smaller" than they were the last time they had the same weight.

To help this, try to focus on healthy 5:2,habits

  • never snack / graze, NHS alcohol limits, cut back on sugary treats & other carby junk

Different strokes etc, Granny In that case, going cold turkey sounds best for you.
Well done on starting the no sugary crap habit

That fruit last night had 30-35g sugar, which can worsen cravings and also add to the problem area at your waist,
even though fruit has nutrients too.

Mosely recommends no more than 2 portions fruit per day, especially for those with possible blood sugar issues,
so reduce to 1 orange.
Also, avoid the higher sugar fruits like banana, mango, pineapple and enjoy your berries, apple, pear
Of course no fruit juice or dried fruit.

You can reduce the sugar impact even with meals if you separate the fruit portions,
e.g. 1 orange as pud for lunch and berries with supper

To help stabilise blood sugar and hence reduce cravings,
try to have beans / lentils / peas daily.

It also might help to boost protein & fat, but reduce starchy carbs - keep to max 100 cooked weight / 2 slices bread per meal

and chose less processed carbs:
oats (not the flavoured instant kind), wholegrain bread, boiled / baked spuds instead of mash, brown / red rice instead of white.

If you can mfp a few days, or at least a few meals, it would show you the carbs & sugar

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/06/2018 07:25

Ugh bcf that sounds awful...

Well done ghost and open

Nfd today, meeting a friend for lunch but place we're going does fab salads, just then need to avoid biscuits etc at afternoon event. Chicken with roasted veg and crumbled feta for dinner, yum!!

Good luck Thurs fasters Smile

bluerunningshoes · 07/06/2018 07:33

morning

fd here today, but feel a bit tired after a late night.

bcf, at least the dryers work quite fast. silver linings and all that...

Iamblossom · 07/06/2018 07:35

Morning all and happy birthday honky. ThanksGlitterballCakeGin

Enjoying my 60g of bran flakes at 220 cals!!!!!!

calzone · 07/06/2018 07:40

I’m also not very good on NFD......

I’m bang on 12 stone again 😀 but determined to see 11 stone something next week so I’m on plan for the weekend.....

Today I will skip breakfast and have eggs, beans, fried mushrooms and onions and toast for breakfast.

A ready meal for dinner with vegetables.

quackingduck222 · 07/06/2018 07:58

Belinda - I’ve done both BSD & 5:2 and this is SOOO much easier than BSD physically and mentally. I found it tough going. If your in ketosis this should be very plain sailing for you. Actually I accidentally fell into ketosis last week after 3 days LCHF confirmed by a pee test. I had no idea as I usually get carb flu and horrific headaches but not this time.

Darcy - you sound so focused and are doing so well. Well done.

Happy Birthday Honky I hope you have a fantastic day.

Granny - you can do it. It’s very hard to break sugar habit. But keep strong.

FD here today. I need to get my backside in the gym and have a good run today as I’ve not been great on motivation lately and I have a 10k Sunday and need to try out some new kit.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

Akire · 07/06/2018 08:01

Morning everyone. Had my first good week! Had posted before about achieving my fist fast day then spectataly blew it in evening. Was so frustrated with myself as must have been about 12th fast day I blew. I was really thinking I really couldn’t do it...

But did two last week and rest good days and lost 2lb! Measured waist and lost 5cm though most of that is pre period bloat but still do feel smaller.

Did anyone else see carb program yesterday? Think bbc or channel 5 really interesting. Showing how fruit and bread has lots of sugar as that is what your body takes from carbs. I knew about it but never clicked before so well. Makes much more sense now n

HonkyWonkWoman · 07/06/2018 08:05

Thanks for all your Birthday Wishes!
I've opened my cards from my lovely family and I have a Voucher for a Beauticians, will use it for Gel nails before hols in July, an eyebrow wax and maybe an Indian Head Massage.
Dd has booked at The Comedy Club for tonight and a Pizza (,think I might have mentioned this before) and a big bunch of flowers this morning. Can't think what the flowers are, they're like big, pink balls and like roses but not roses! Anyway they're lovely!
I've weighed this a.m. and lost a pound, so that's four in two weeks, pleased with that.
So today, I will only eat my Chunky Veg Soup to counteract the Pizza etc tonight.
Good luck to all Fd'ers today! Have a Green Tea to keep you going 🍵🍵🍵🍵!😀