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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 77: AARGH ! Frustrated with the grind of daily dieting ? Eat normal food 5 days a week, fast 2 days

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 08:09

Love the sound of Norman BCF!

Happy birthday Honky hope you have a fab day, enjoy the pizza later!

On a FD today, feeling hungry already but DH has instructions for cooking dinner tonight when I get home and I have an emergency apple with me Grin

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 08:12

Well done ghost open and akire on the SV’s and good luck to all the other fasters today.

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 08:12

Oh and honky - we’ll done on the loss!

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 08:13

*well not we’ll

badger82 · 07/06/2018 08:23

Checking in for a FD. Good luck everyone!

NotLeanButMean · 07/06/2018 08:42

Have a great day Honky! 🎂

Checking in for my b2b day today. Bang on 13st today. The 12s are in sight!

After that, only 7lbs to go until I'm a healthy weight. I was obese at the beginning of the year.

Well done all round to everyone on their SVs!

Iamblossom · 07/06/2018 08:47

akire I did watch that. Was aware of a lot of the info but was interested to see dh got the "what has more sugar in it rice or strawberries/bagel or muffin" as I have been banging in about that for years.

I quite liked the toast from frozen factoid!

19 sugar cubes in a baked potato!!!! ShockShockShockShock

DaisyandTim · 07/06/2018 08:58

Honky are the flowers peonies?

That’s amazing notlean you will have to name change soon!

HonkyWonkWoman · 07/06/2018 09:10

Yes, that's it Daisy! Thanks for that!

Just so well done NotLean! 🌻 We can all have a celebration when you reach your healthy weight!

CantankerousCamel · 07/06/2018 09:36

I didn’t overeat this morning. Had granola, yogurt and coffee for breakfast

A soya latte and half a crossaint with my son before his appointment

I very much doubt I’ll eat before CrossFit at 12.30, where I will have a preworkout protein shake then after I’ll hage scrambled egg on toast with a cup of tea :-)

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 11:30

I’m still catching up. What’s the frozen toast factoid?

Sounds like a fab day Honky.

I was sorely tempted to have a latte at 11ish but resisted and had a black coffee instead 😇

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 11:32

Lean you are doing so well, it must feel amazing!

snailhunter · 07/06/2018 11:32

Did my post-fast-day weigh-in and surprise surprise, I am still at 9st 11. That's five weeks since my last significant loss of 2lb from 9st 13lbs.
Am starting to wonder if it is worth trying to get down any further - maybe I should just stop here rather than trying to get to goal weight.

I really don't think there's anything else I can realistically do to tweak what I'm doing that doesn't involve me eating less. I'm already eating around 100 cals under TDEE on NFDs according to MFP, not eating back exercise cals (which can sometimes be up to 500 for a long run day), not snacking, doing two decent FDs a week, sticking to a couple of glasses of wine at weekends and so on.

Perhaps I should just start to think about the best way to maintain now. Any thoughts from those who have reached goal weight? How long did it take those last 3lb to come off and what did you do?

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 11:33

Fasting today I should add. Though I do my food shop on a Thursday so I may need to rethink that combination Hmm

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 11:37

Snail I’m aiming for 9.7 too, currently 9.11. How tall are you?

In my younger pre dc days I was happy at around 9st but at my current age I’m worried I’ll look too scrawny any thinner; the classic trying to balance face and bum scenario. I’m about 5’4”

Whattheactualfuckmate · 07/06/2018 11:45

open I’m 9,11 and 5,4 too!

I’ve lost 1lb since Monday and have done my two miserable fast days. I’m really tempted to do another one Friday but scared I’ll go in to ‘starvation’ mode

My friend sent me over a diet last night that promised to lose a stone in a week! It’s the one the hospital use for obese people waiting surgery but it’s very low calorie Shock

Whattheactualfuckmate · 07/06/2018 11:50

Oh I seen the frozen toast on tv last night!

Apparently when you freeze bread before toasting it- it converts in to less calories

openupmyeagereyes · 07/06/2018 11:55

That’s good to know, thanks.

What’s your target weight whatthe?

quackingduck222 · 07/06/2018 12:11

Snail - I found that last little bit a absolute swine to get rid of but I managed the last bit quite quickly by going very low carb with no junk or alcohol. I was concerned that once I’d hit target the weight would go back on when reintroducing carbs again but it didn’t. I went straight into maintenance with no issues.

Whattheactualfuckmate · 07/06/2018 12:14

open I go away on holiday in three weeks so anything. Since having dd3 I’ve accumulated fat on my back ! Shock so that needs to come off. I’m 39 this year so if it doesn’t come of now it never will.

I’d be over the moon with 11lb in three weeks Grin but realistically I’d be happy with another 7lbs

bluerunningshoes · 07/06/2018 12:24

apparently the resisrant starch thing works with rice, potato, pasta as well.
no need to freeze either, just cool diwn and refridgerate leftovers and reheat.

WreckTangled · 07/06/2018 12:28

Honky I love peonies! One of our patients was called peony Grin

Fd going well for now, have another boring meeting this afternoon then dd has swimming later. We're out of salad so I'll have to pop and get some.

HonkyWonkWoman · 07/06/2018 12:34

They are absolutely beautiful Tangled!
Are you a nurse? Pretty name Peony!

snailhunter · 07/06/2018 12:38

open Hey, you're my twin! I'm also 5 4" and also 9st 11 lb. My starting weight was 10st 13lb so I have lost a significant amount which I'm happy with.

quacking That's interesting. I've resisted going low carb as for me it's totally unsustainable but I might consider it if I'm not going to put it all on again after reintroduction. Where did you start with that? Did you use a specific plan?

quackingduck222 · 07/06/2018 12:47

Snail - Il be honest if you’ve only got a few lbs to shift I honestly think that would be doable in a week maybe two at a push.
I’ve done low carbing on and off for years so not really followed a plan but I suppose in reality it was BSD principals. Low carb med style diet. I replaced all my carbs for dinner with a extra portion of meat and veg. I found I wasn’t hungry and it was quite satisfying.

The timescale of mine was 1st Jan and hit target a couple of days before Valentine’s Day and in that time lost a stone. Prior to this it seemed to be loose a lb gain a lb and was stuck in that constant cycle.

Maybe try it for a couple of days and see how you go.

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