Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Hockneypool · 26/04/2018 07:31

Morning all fast day here too.

Have a busy day at a community planning event I’ve organised. So it should keep me distracted.

Good luck everyone

quackingduck222 · 26/04/2018 07:40

Rising sun - well done on your FD. No it doesn’t matter honestly.

Friendly- well done on your FD. I lost 2 stone on the Blood sugar diet then 2 stone on 5:2 and am now using it for maintenance. It’s a fabulous WOL I absolutely bloody it.

43 - that sounds lovely I will definitely have to make that as I’m forever throwing out left over cream as I never know what to do with it. 297 cals that’s really good for 1/2.
You’ve done so well 12lbs is such a lot. But I’d say look how far you’ve come rather than how much to go.

BCF - have you got your new flat?

Homemade- Il give that a watch then sounds interesting. The whole cereal thing is absolutely shocking.

Noway - 10.5 lbs is also such a huge amount. Fantastic

Apple - that sounds a good TDEE and a decent figure. Are you using MFP? You may very well find when you get used to counting cals you start playing round with ideas to get as much bang for your buck as possible. For me it’s silly things like adding cheese to a omelette after tweeking my recipes it tastes no different so I don’t add it in now to save a few cals.

Cheshire good luck for today and everyone else fasting.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 26/04/2018 07:45

How much weight have you
lost 43? Starting at a similar size Blush

Gammeldragz · 26/04/2018 07:51

Morning all. Thanks for all the advice re weighing. Wierdly I was even lighter this morning after a NFD yesterday, so I'm just going to carry on with my daily weighing as I do love my graph! NFD went well yesterday, went out for lunch with DH to new pizza place and I had their skinny pizza, so small one

NoWayNoHow · 26/04/2018 07:52

High five back 43 ! I'm shorter than you (5'4") and started at 13st. Trying not to think how far I've still got to go, and focusing on how brilliantly we've both done already Smile

Good luck all Thurs fasters! NFD at this course for me today- no idea what registration "refreshments" will be, but thinking probably pastries, so have got myself a large skinny latte at 120cals to see if that will keep me going till lunch.

katienana · 26/04/2018 08:17

Hi just checking in as I'm prepping thus week to start for real on Monday. Experimented on Tuesday and ate around 800 cals, this included a pasta bake at lunch and pork chop at dinner and was really easy.
So I think I can probably manage 500 cals, won't be too upset if I go over though.
Have been logging everything on mfp, my tdee is 1900 I think I will struggle to eat that much on a nfd to be honest! Yesterday I had 1300 and never felt deprived. I've been training myself to eat breakfast later, I usually eat before the school run but holding off as long as possible is helping me eliminate snacks.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2018 09:13

morning smiled I've lost 12lbs since 26th Feb Grin How tall are you?

noway i need to change my thinking to be more positive like you - I always just think of the slog ahead and not how far I've come Grin

FD today and hoping I can survive on tea and water until lunch, which is a subway chicken salad.

Good luck with it katie

WreckTangled · 26/04/2018 09:28

This morning I weigh 7lb less than yesterday Grin yesterday was a FD though so to be expected

snailhunter · 26/04/2018 09:34

Down 2lb to 9st 11 today! My lowest yet. Good things come to those who wait! Have faith, oh ye fasters. If BCF says it, it will come...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2018 09:44

bloody hell wreck was that after your B2B?

Excellent SV snail congratulations :)

snailhunter · 26/04/2018 10:06

43 about being positive - back in the old days I used to smoke and found Allan Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking book very useful. He advocates thinking about giving up in a positive way, so not 'Oh God, I'm giving up this thing which I love and it will be terrible' but 'Hooray, I'm giving up this thing which is awful and is killing me. Excellent, I can't wait. How nice it will be to not be beholden to this nasty, expensive, smelly thing.' I do find that way of thinking useful when I'm doing weight loss. Though I appreciate cake and smoking are very different!

But it's all about focusing on the positives. I read a LOT of weight loss threads when I was thinking about doing 5:2 and so many people seemed so unhappy with their various methods: beating themselves up over tiny fluctuations, agonising over whether to have one or two dry cream crackers, furious with themselves when they couldn't stick to totally impossible meal plans and binged. I really felt for them and I didn't want to spend my life yo-yoing, obsessing, and setting myself up to fail.

littleladylawyer · 26/04/2018 10:08

Well done wreck and snail, great svs. Lowest weight and 7lb off- fab!

fortythree stick with that positive frame of mind. I've not tried a salad from subway, are they good?

Welcome katie, an 800 intro day is a great start, I'm sure you'll be fine with 500 but as you say, don't worry if it takes a few fasts to get there.

Yesterday after b2b I was not really hungry at all, was well under tdee. I'm trying to listen to my appetite more which is easier without mfp- previously I would just eat my planned meals and allocated cals without thinking about whether I actually wanted them.

snail how are you finding no mfp? I still check calories on things so I know roughly where I am and don't get any nasty calorie bombs, but it's nice to just pick things based on what I fancy rather than what I've planned.

WreckTangled · 26/04/2018 10:17

Forty no I didn't do B2B. I don't have digital scales at home but do at work so it may not be entirely accurate I'm just comparing my (fully clothed) weight on the digital scales to what it was yesterday. I'm sure it'll be back up tomorrow. Might get some digital scales for home actually, has anyone got a cheap recommendation I can get from amazon?

quackingduck222 · 26/04/2018 10:24

Tangled - holy moly 7lbs after a FD that is incredible. Actually that has to be a record. The most I’ve ever seen is 3lbs but that FD was after a major feed day.

Snail - that is AMAZING. Congratulations

Some fantastic results today.

snailhunter · 26/04/2018 10:52

Thanks quacking, 43 and lawyer! I am actually feeling fine with no MFP, lawyer. Prob because I was on it for four months every single day so pretty much know the cal content of everything already! It feels good to be off, like I'm moving towards maintenance rather than Doing The 5:2.

applelolly · 26/04/2018 12:02

Thanks bigchoc I had settled on lightly active, but maybe I should increase to moderately. I actually ate well under either yesterday and felt I had enough. Half the trouble is years of yo yo dieting have meant I don't feel hunger properly so find it hard to know when I NEED to eat rather than when I WANT to eat!
Fast day here going ok. Just had a cup of boil, and have drunk around 1 1/2l water and no headache so far! Planning a small jacket potato with tuna and salad for dinner later. Then a nice early night. Hope all fellow fasters are going OK.

applelolly · 26/04/2018 12:03

Cup of bovril that should say!

CheshireSplat · 26/04/2018 12:15

Struggling a little today and have just cracked and had lunch. Usually try to hold out for longer. However, I have my secret weapon (Bovril) in my bag so shall have a mug about 3. I've also had 3 teas and a coffee, so need to switch to infusions soon or I'll have spend way too many calories on milk. Thinking of bed time to stop me eating already!!!!

Did anyone see the BBC "where are you in the national scale of obesity" piece on their web site?www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-43697948

It's very depressing for the nation. I'm exactly average for women of my age (BMI 27.1). I kind of felt okay because I'm not fat compared to most people - just normal. But "normal" isn't good!! Being fat is normal!!! DH could be smug - he's 23.9 and men his age are on average 27.7.

I wonder where I'd fare in this if there was a German equivalent. In fact, is there BCF?

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 26/04/2018 12:45

I am 5ft 8" 43
Weighed in at 13st 8.7 yesterday - was 14st a month ago. I would like to be between 10-11st. So have a way to go yet! Confused

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 26/04/2018 12:47

On the plus ride I am finding (at week 2 of 5:2) that I am eating less on NFDs - seems to make me a bit more mindful of what I shove in my gob Grin does anyone else find this too?

CheshireSplat · 26/04/2018 13:33

smiled I did feel that way to start with , along the lines I wasn't going through the struggle of an FD for nothing. But then I got lax and had to start MFPing on NFDs in order to see some progress.

Sounds like you're making good progress. Half a stone in a month is wonderful!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2018 14:14

I used to be 5ft 8in with a size 8 shoe but over the last 5 years I have shrunk 1 in and 1 show size - just completely odd!!! You are doing really well smiled we will get there Grin I've found the biggest change since doing this is the no snacking rule, it has honestly changed my eating habits for the better

Not seen that cheshire will go and have a look - thanks

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2018 14:15

shoe not show Confused

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 26/04/2018 14:29

So I guess it's not really that you can eat "whatever" you want on NFDs then hey?

applelolly · 26/04/2018 14:34

I'm out for my last work appointment now so have thankfully escaped the office at least. Struggling a bit, but will make it through until I get in. No headache today though which is good. Hang in there all faster!

Swipe left for the next trending thread