Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
snailhunter · 25/04/2018 18:43

Cheers for the help BCF and yes, I'll certainly look at those fat blaster exercises. Will make a nice change from all the running!

All the other factors - it's so weird. I hardly drink at all: a couple of glasses of wine at the weekend. Have been consistently below or on TDEE for NFDs, and that's underestimating my activity level. No snacking, no hidden cals on FDs. The occasional biscuit but with a meal. But am not really too worried, to be honest. I am so happy with my loss so far and my awesome new waist that if nothing else comes off in the next few weeks, I'll probably just start experimenting with maintenance.

Also FD completed for today and kitchen closed on about 450. Hooray!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/04/2018 19:11

Well done everyone fasting today... it's nearly done Smile
snail you sound like you have a good outlook on all of this...

Nfd today and done well but don't think I'll be 'saving' any cal's for Friday as just had lovely dinner of salmon, dauphinoise potatoes and parmesan green beans with a lovely cold glass of white wine Grin I have about 455 call left but contemplating another glass of wine, hmmmmm, tough decision!

WreckTangled · 25/04/2018 19:21

Kitchen closed two hours ago. Finished on 538 calories, 60 of those were jelly babies to treat a hypo though so I'm happy with that. Roll on tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2018 19:22

apple On FDs, there is no allowance for exercise, regardless of how much you do

On NFDs, if you use an App, be careful you don't count exercise calories twice, i.e. via TDEE and via calculated exercise calories
Also, gadgets are sometimes over-optimistic.

What we - and Mosely - recommend, is to account for exercise entirely via TDEE
His TDEE Calcc* is pretty good - he says exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think, because most people over-estimate how active they are

Then if you want to track calories, just use the App for calories eaten & drunk, not exercise cals

OP posts:
Homemadehopeful · 25/04/2018 19:28

FD kitchen here closed at 558 calories today. Am very happy with that as it is actually my 3rd fast day this week. Am trying to get ahead of myself for the weekend Smile

I have downloaded a free weight tracker app but may try the one you use if you can add notes. I am usually a very frequent weigher and find that helps for me, though I know it doesn't for lots of people!

A glass of wine sounds lovely 43, definitely my downfall!!

Homemadehopeful · 25/04/2018 19:30

Sorry, weight tracker app comment was to quacking!

quackingduck222 · 25/04/2018 20:26

Homemade - the “my weight” app is good.
Handy to add a FD note.
Well done on your FD.

Well done tangled on your FD.

43 - your tea sounds amazing. Did you make the potatoes yourself?

Snail - fantastic that your in such a good place with it all. Your doing amazing. And wow your training for a half marathon that’s awesome.

Noway - that’s awesome, good luck for your weigh in Friday.

Ghost - I can’t believe the difference between the Apple Watch vs Fitbit on a very very good day mine says I’ve burnt 450-500.

Hey Peachy - I hope your blood test go well.

Mighty - hope your FD went well.

No Idea - hope your First FD went well?

Darcy- yes more water is a great idea.

Gammel - All the way through 5:2 maintenance was my fear. I’ve yo-yo dieted 8 years and can loose the weight but never managed maintenance more than a day in the past. All I can say is to trust the process. BCF reassured me MANY times that maintenance does work and it really does.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 25/04/2018 20:46

Phew 2nd FD done!
Went 22 cals over Blush is that really terrible???

OohMrDarcy · 25/04/2018 20:49

Thanks quacking, have done better with water today and the need to EAT EVERYTHING appears to be wearing off a little so may try a mini at least tomorrow... see how I feel in the morning I guess

Homemadehopeful · 25/04/2018 20:53

Off to watch Hugh Fearnley-Whitingsal (no idea if that is correct spelling!!) on Britain's Fat Fight or something like that at 9pm.

quackingduck222 · 25/04/2018 20:59

That’s really good Darcy.

Homemade- let me know if it’s good and you think it’s worth a watch saw this advertised the other day and thought it looked good.

FriendlyGhost · 25/04/2018 21:01

496 calories in today. Well probably around 100 more if I include milk in tea and coffee but they were needed and i’m very happy with that and it was easier than I expected. No more fasts until Monday now so I just need to be sensible and try to avoid the Easter eggs that are still sitting in my kitchen cupboards.
Can I be nosey and ask are people on here mainly hoping for big losses or just weight maintenance after losing? I’m hoping to lose around a stone and then maintain. I’m currently 10 1/2 and would love to see single figures on the scales again.

WreckTangled · 25/04/2018 21:08

Friendly I would love to lose a stone but even half would make me feel better.

I was looking back on MFP and when ds was five months old I weighed 8 and a half stone! That's half a stone less than I weigh now and he's 5! Maybe if I have another baby...WinkGrin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/04/2018 21:45

quacking I would ordinarily make them from scratch (just thinly sliced potatoes, garlic, cream and a sprinkle of cheese) but saw some in m&s for 297cals per half a pack so thought I'm short on time today so I'll try them and they were really nice... plus I normally make 6 portions and end up picking so thus was a good alternative.

ghost well done on the fd.... I have lost 12lbs to date but have another 24lb to lose... seems so much when I write it down Sad and that's only to just get under bmi of 25, will reevaluate when I get there.

Well done mrd Smile good luck for your mini tomorrow

Well done smiled 22 cal's over is nothing Smile

Fd number 2 tomorrow and got a super busy day, who else is fasting Thursday?

HLBug · 25/04/2018 21:57

43 I'm with you tomorrow - I'll be aiming for about 750 calories though as, if I count Sunday as part of this week, it'll be my 3rd FD this week.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2018 22:13

Well done, smiled
22 cals is totally unimportant and is anyway well within the margin of error for mfp etc
Anything under 600 is fine, even for those with low TDEE / in a hurry

Well done, friendly

We always have a wide variety of different aims:
A few longterm (3-5 years) maintainers, at least TIP and I
Some fairly new maintainers, like duck
The majority aiming to lose ½ - 2 stone
A few starting from higher BMI, 100kg+, wanting to lose several stone

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2018 22:14

Well done to all the Wednesday fasters Smile
Now have an early night, to maximise the fasting benefits

OP posts:
Homemadehopeful · 25/04/2018 22:22

Quacking I thought it was worth a watch. A lot of it was common sense but still quite shocking. We were talking about this in the office today and wondering why this country is more overweight than other European countries. If I'm very honest I was also a little smug at the fact that my DC (12 & 13) won't drink any fizzy drinks, we never buy heavily sugar loaded cereals (Cheerios is as bad as it gets - Amber on a sugar traffic light, and it is quite rare to have these) and they both eat green veg. The portrayal of some deprived areas was depressing really. Crazy how much things have changed in the last 20 - 30 years.

Friendly I have only just started 5:2 and I am doing it to lose about a stone. I weighed 10st 9lbs last week with a bmi of 24 so the top end of healthy. This is the heaviest I ever get and when it creeps up to here I try and lose a bit, usually about 7lbs, but I would love to be under 10st and stay there!

NoWayNoHow · 25/04/2018 23:02

friendly I'm looking to lose with 5:2. Actually, 43 and I are goal twins! Also have exactly 24lbs to go to get to sub-25 BMI at which point will see how I look/feel.

Have lost 10.5lbs since beginning Feb, so averaging just under 1lb a week, but realistically I only properly started losing mid-March when I followed bcf's advice and counted cals on NFDs to make sure I hadn't been over-earkng (I had).

applelolly · 26/04/2018 07:04

morning all. second fast day of the week for me today. I have woken up felling hungry which isn't a good start, but will press on!
Thanks for all the advice re tdee. I ended up just under 1600 calories yesterday, and still felt like Id eaten a lot so that is good. Think I will set activity level to light for now and see how it goes. That gives me a tdee of 1995, so will aim for around 1600 -1800 week day nfds and slightly more at weekends to allow for some treats.
just sipping black coffee to wake me up! Good luck to all those fasting today. I have remembered to buy some bovril to keep my headache at bay!

CheshireSplat · 26/04/2018 07:10

Morning all. apple I'm joining you for a FD today. First time I've done Monday/Thursday for a while. I was so hungry on Tuesday that I've been pleased to have two NFDs between my FDs this week.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/04/2018 07:14

Morning all and good luck to the Thursday fasters

apple Just seen your question: I'd suggest "moderately active" for TDEE Calc - this is Mosely's one, which I recommend

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/04/2018 07:17

friendly Your fitbit post illustrates how such gadgets can be unhelpful wrt how many calories you can eat.
Hence the advice just to use Mosely's TDEE calculator

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2018 07:18

High fives to twinnie noway I wonder if we are similar height / starting weight? I'm 5ft 7 and starting weight was 14st Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 26/04/2018 07:19

I suggest using the exercise values from fitbit etc just as a very rough guide to check if you are increasing or decreasing activity level

OP posts: