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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
FriendlyGhost · 14/05/2018 13:05

Just checking in for another fast day. I had a fair amount of wine over the weekend so I definitely need it. On the plus side i’m wearing a skirt today that hasn’t fit me for 4 years. It used to be looser but it does up now and doesn’t dig in which is massive progress. I’m currently watching my dc eat lunch. This is probably the hardest point of the day. I’m finding it easier to save all of my calories until the evening so only another 5 hours to go!

snailhunter · 14/05/2018 13:31

pop I totally agree. I did find myself thinking an awful lot about food and fasting in the first few months. I was on MFP all the time. Then I realised that this wasn't sustainable for me and so came off MFP and relaxed on NFDs a little more. When it became clear that it was fine to do that and I wasn't going to regain everything if I stopped thinking about it, I thought about Being On The 5:2 a lot less. I don't really think about it at all on NFDs any more as the good habits are pretty ingrained now.

For me, distraction is the absolute key to success on FDs and that's when it does become second nature. I get into doing something and I don't think about eating at all. Some of these things are treats - a lovely walk, a swim, watching a box set, doing some crochet or dressmaking - but I also find that just doing stuff like cleaning the house or working on a big project works for me.

Iamblossom · 14/05/2018 14:09

Afternoon all. Checking in half way through a FD.

Was 8 stone 13 this morning so about 5 pound above ideal weight. I know exactly why! Hmm I am a classic example of someone for whom exercise has little bearing on what I weigh, as I do a shit ton, but it is what I eat and drink that dictates those pesky scales numbers.

Today's menu:

2 water biscuits, and a breadstick, and a hard boiled egg

prawn 2 egg omelette, with a big green salad, 0% greek yoghurt and an options hot choc.

I have run a mile, stopped when back started aching and power walked for another 20 minutes on treadmill.
Attempted a strength workout for my bad back.
Walked dog for an hour, what a beautiful day it is here. Grin

Well done on all losses, and welcome to all newbies.

frieda909 · 14/05/2018 14:13

It’s 2:10pm and I haven’t felt the urge to eat my soup, which is brilliant because now I can almost have a proper meal with my partner later Smile that prawn omelette sounds good *lamblossom’, I might join you in one of those!

Iamblossom · 14/05/2018 14:21

frieda it's my Go To FD tea - a whole packet of prawns, 98 cals, and 2 eggs makes a huge omelette and with a big salad it take minutes to make and ages to eat! Win Win!

Iamblossom · 14/05/2018 14:23

BigChoc can you recommend any You Tube workouts to strengthen my back using weights?

I tried to do this morning but couldn't do the first exercise or the back plank as they really hurt my lower back which is weak from too much running.

WreckTangled · 14/05/2018 14:43

I haven't eaten yet today. Have had a cup of oxo but hoping I can wait until dinner now (which I was probably have at 4:30!)

FriendlyGhost · 14/05/2018 16:21

I haven’t eaten yet either. Dd1 was sick everywhere earlier so i think it put me off Sad. I’m really hoping it’s not a bug because there’s apparently one going around. I’m being kept busy bleaching every surface in sight just in case.

WreckTangled · 14/05/2018 16:27

Yuck friendly. If it is a bug you'll be doing the right thing by not eating!

calzone · 14/05/2018 16:27

I am hungry but waiting for dinner......I’m going to have salmon with a whole bag of rocket with balsamic vinegar.

Bath and an early night.

WreckTangled · 14/05/2018 16:37

I'm just waiting for the DC's dinner to cook and I'll have mine. I've got Thai chicken noodles (289 calories) and a big salad (no dressing) might finish it off with some plain yoghurt and raspberries.

Clutterfreeintraining · 14/05/2018 16:38

Hi everyone.
Hadn’t planned a FD today but am trying to cut out breakfast mon-fri and once I’d got over my bagel craving this morning, I realised I wasn’t actually hungry. I made myself a mix of prawns, tomatoes, cucumber and a teaspoon of mayo for lunch and that’s all I’ve eaten so far so think this will turn into a b2b. Last night’s leftovers are waiting for me (mostly veg and gravy!) once I finish work.
Also, instead of sitting down to eat my breakfast and drink a coffee, I made the children’s afterschool sandwiches so that was all prepared for when we got home and stopped me from picking - yay!

CheshireSplat · 14/05/2018 16:44

Oh dear, I'm at 574 calories already. That means a boiled egg and nothing else tonight!

I was planning to have 208 cals of humous for lunch (1/2 tub( but didn't put the tub in the fridge, but left it by me do I've snaffled the lot. Broken the no snacking time to boot.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2018 17:15

300cals or thereabouts for dinner, lacking in inspiration though... prawn omelette is a contender I think Grin

Oh dear cheshire I find that with houmous too... it's hard to stop. Can you manage on a boiled egg? Or have b2b which gives you 650cals today and tomorrow?

Well done on being super organised clutter I have skipped breakfast for the last 12 weeks and it frees up so many calories to use the rest of the day and Wine Gin at the weekend

Clutterfreeintraining · 14/05/2018 17:21

Cheshire - that’s frustrating!
Forty - thanks...it’s not very often that I am organised but it makes such a difference. I hope I can keep it up. I love breakfast/breakfast time. It’s usually the quietest time of day in this house. Evenings are pretty calm and quiet too but I’m usually too tired to appreciate it.

WreckTangled · 14/05/2018 17:21

Kitchen closed at 426 cals. Easiest FD yet. Well I still have to get through this evening which includes swimming lessons!

Clutterfreeintraining · 14/05/2018 17:37

Well done! Good luck with swimming lessons!!

frieda909 · 14/05/2018 17:54

Actually cannot believe how easy today was! I had my little M&S protein pot (will try to make these myself in future!) at 10:30 and then I didn’t feel the need to eat anything else apart from a bovril around 3. Now I’m looking forward to a nice dinner. Prawn omelettes all round!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/05/2018 18:26

snail I'm glued to mfp at the moment and it is tedious, but I'm still shocked at how much calories are in certain things (I'm looking at you cheese) so will keep it up for another month or two and then see if I can make better choices without having to check.

Mid FD at the moment and snarfed some of the kids tea while dishing them up.Not cool. I need to make my dinner soon and may need to wear horse blinders while in the kitchen so I don't get tempted by anything else as I will have no calories spare today!

calzone · 14/05/2018 19:09

I’ve had water and Marmite drink today.

Dinner was 2 small salmon fillets, rocket, fry light fried mushrooms and onions and a little light mayonnaise.

I’m actually quite full.

Need to be strong so might go for a bath as ds has just baked cookies. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

snailhunter · 14/05/2018 19:35

Kitchen closed: pasta with sauteed shallots, garlic, fresh basil and red pepper, and a few cubes of feta. Then 100g of full fat Greek yog with strawberries. Yum. Around 550 I reckon.

CheshireSplat · 14/05/2018 19:40

40 that is already on a B2B with 650! 😂😂😂

I've had my egg, it was delicious, from a local farm and blue (outside, inside looked quite normal). Can make it to bedtime easily. I'm usually stuffed in a Monday after indulging at the weekend, but because of my good week last week (did I mention that?!) I was hungrier today. And it was a very quiet day at work, which didn't help...

littleladylawyer · 14/05/2018 20:07

Hi all, well done to the Monday fasters.

I didn't end up fasting yesterday as DP offered to take me out for lunch, and I didn't want to pass up that offer!

Fasted today which has been fine, walked 12km and did 30min hiit strength session. Got dinner in the oven- chicken stuffed with ricotta and spinach with salad.

As I'm trying to up my exercise and add muscle (particularly in the bum area which is currently sadly pancake like) I've decided not to b2b this week. So it's nfd tomorrow and fd either Weds or Thurs, will see how I go.

Iamblossom · 14/05/2018 20:08

Kitchen closed at 540.

calzone · 14/05/2018 20:13

I’m planning a sw feast day tomorrow......

B.....golden crunch cereal with strawberries and yoghurt

L....pasta carbonara with quark and rocket

D.....Morrison’s fishcakes, mushy peas

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