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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2018 19:53

So don't worry - you'll lose in your own time:
It's a WOL, not a race Smile

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 13/05/2018 20:48

I’ll keep those sayings in mind, thank you. However, it’s not leftovers I’m clearing away, I have a sandwich/biscuit/Packer of crisps when I’m feeding the dc after school Blush.
Hopefully, if I prepare it all beforehand and make sure there’s only enough for the children, it’ll stop me from eating.

Borris · 13/05/2018 21:33

Hello I’m interested in joining. I’m 5 ft 6 and 72kg. I’d like to lose 12kg. How quickly can weight loss be expected? If I exercise is it realistic to hope to be slim and toned one day? Finally can FD be consecutive days? Just as I think it will be easier to fast when dd is with her dad.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 14/05/2018 07:45

FD1 of week 5. Had a bit of a full on celebratory weekend but don't seem to have put weight on thank goodness! Quite relieved to be fasting again tbh.
Am going to incorporate exercise today Grin
Good luck all fasters. Enjoy the sunshine ☀️

calzone · 14/05/2018 07:54

Oh my goodness!

I have just weighed myself properly as it’s Weigh Day Monday.

I can’t believe it.

I was 12 stone 8lb last Tuesday.

I fasted on Tuesday and Thursday and have eaten mindfully and had no snacks or sugar as in cakes or biscuits.....

THIS MORNING I AM EXACTLY 12 STONE! 💐🥦🌶🥕🥑🥒🌽

I realise this won’t happen every week and is probably water but I’m chuffed to bits.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/05/2018 08:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

frieda909 · 14/05/2018 08:23

Morning all! FD for me after the mother of all bad weekends... huge Eurovision party on Saturday night which then led to lots of hungover binging yesterday. I had a great time so I don’t regret it but I probably undid all my hard work on the two FDs last week!

WreckTangled · 14/05/2018 08:24

Wow calzone that's amazing!

FD for me today. I'm going to try and make it to dinner without eating but have a mini salad (lettuce, cucumber, tomato, spring onion and seasoning) in case I need it.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2018 08:28

OMG calzone that is bloody amazing!!!
Well done mother on your SV, especially as you were away for the weekend.

FD1 here today, got a super tricky week food wise so going to try my hardest not to stress about it too much and try and be sensible!

Good luck monday fasters Grin

CheshireSplat · 14/05/2018 08:44

Well done everyone. Frieda think where you'd be if you hadn't have done 2 FDs.

Though if you do that every week you end up like me, losing about 1 lb a month!

Weigh day today, and I'm 10 12 1/4 which I'm chuffed with. Lost 1 1/2 lbs last week with a b2b, 3 very good NFDs and a more relaxed (but not totally relaxed, eg declined ice creams which everyone else was eating) weekend.

Need to carry on being careful, I'm only 2 lbs from popping my head over that 11 stone edge again, and that is never going to happen!

And compliments all over the place from people saying how much slimmer I'm looking. At only 5'3", 1/2 stone is a big deal.

Onwards to next goal of 10 stone 10!!

Grin
CheshireSplat · 14/05/2018 08:49

Oh and a NSV. Have just checked BMI and it's 26.9. Have gone from 28. something to 27. something and now 26. something.

Well done Calzone great start!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2018 08:55

well done cheshire I'm sure you won't be seeing the 11s again but it would be nice to have a bit of a buffer I know Grin and excellent NSV, not far until you are in the healthy BMI

Pinkvici22 · 14/05/2018 08:58

Cheshire totally agree about the difference half a stone makes when you’re short.

NFD for me today, going my FDs Tuesday and Thursday this week. Having read all the recent posts I think I need to stop snacking completely!

HLBug · 14/05/2018 09:10

borris hello, you are very welcome. The OP at the start of the thread has lots of very useful information. And yes, you can do consecutive FDs - this is called a Back 2 Back (B2B) and if you take this approach then you can have 650 calories each day (rather than the standard 500 calorie for non consecutive). I'd say wait a few weeks until your body is used to fasting before you attempt a B2B though.

calzone you are absolutely smashing this - brilliant SV, well done! Lots of other SVs too.

I'm attempting my first week of maintenance, eek. FD today and I feel like a kid in a sweet shop knowing I can have 800 calories! Just need to make sure I don't get over excited and end up going over Hmm

How are you feeling this morning after your run quacking, not too sore I hope.

HLBug · 14/05/2018 09:12

pink yes! No snacking! Ever! It's so simple but it is absolutely vital. Also saves you £££!

Homemadehopeful · 14/05/2018 09:24

Haven't managed to catch up on the thread yet from the weekend but weighed in again this morning and I have gained over the weekend again despite a really strict fast day Friday and what I thought was fairly good Sat & Sun plus lots of walking both days plus a circuits class yesterday. Feeling a bit frustrated if I'm honest!

Monday is a FD and am approaching it with a "it's a self care day" as suggested by BCF on Friday. That is resonating with me at the moment as I have some gynae issues atm.

Have decided I am going to have to strictly count calories on NFD too to see if that makes a difference.

Have a good day all

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2018 09:33

Well done, cheshire - that mindful week brought you into the 10 somethings

Great start, calzone, an SV and good habits NSV
With a fair bit to lose, you can lose the first chunk quite quickly, if you continue to retrain your habits
Onwards into the 11 stone somethings soon

Well done on your SVs, motherof4
I agree, if you don't buy 'em, you won't eat 'em
Also don't eat them if someone else provides them: "free" junk costs you bod

Welcome, Borris Smile
Yup, if you do b2b (consecutive) FDs, you should have 650 cals instead of 500

Note that on FDs you should not have any alcohol, sweet treats - cake, biscuits etc - or savoury junk like crisps

The OP describes this and has a useful "How to Start" section with links below for 3D body visualisers and menu ideas, also Mosely's TDEE calculator

Many folk on these threads have reached goal, some starting from BMi 40+, others with just a couple of stone or less to go.
Some of us here are maintainers, with up to 5+ years staying at goal

Most folk have a good initial loss, then settle down to a 1lb per week average - those with higher BMI usually lose more quickly: those already in healthy BMI may lose more slowly
Relax, be patient & persistent and you"ll get there

The main factor in rate of loss is what you consume on NFDs, so follow the 5:2 good habits:

  • No snacking ever, between meals
  • have fruit, lattes, alcohol, other treats as part of a meal
+ Keep within NHS alcohol limits + Be sensible about the amount & frequency of sweet treats
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2018 09:41

Enjoy your maintenance, bug Smile
You've worked hard to reach goal and this is the payoff
Now is when you personalise your fasting WOL for lifetime weight control

Good for you with the self-care FDs, homemade
FD habits like relaxation & more sleep, can really boost fasting benefits
I make them days for personal grooming - shaving, nails etc - relaxing walk outside after training, then sauna, a soak in the jacuzzi

Longterm mindful NFD habits help weight progress, especially NHS alcohol limits, drinking more water and never snacking between meals

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2018 09:51

how exciting bug enjoy the extra calories Smile

Argh, that is frustrating homemade but that gain could be water, undigested food etc, a good FD today will get that off I'm sure, keep at it...

Welcome borris and good luck with it, keep posting here for lots of advice, tips and motivation!!

snailhunter · 14/05/2018 10:28

Welcome borris, well done calzone and Cheshire! I agree, homemade, it is so annoying when the scales don't go the way you want. I''ve had that in the past, felt annoyed, let it go, got back on the fasting train and loss has eventually happened.

FD for me today after a weekend which probably had slightly too many sweet things! We had friends over for a board games night and snacks were, I confess, consumed. But spent seven hours in the garden yesterday clearing out the pond, weeding and digging over a plot, putting weed suppressant down and shifting a massive load of bricks for edging, so reckon a few of those rocky road treats might have been burned off that way! Am looking forward to shifting a ton (literally) of gravel from the front garden to the back garden on Wednesday, bucketful by bucketful...I forgot how tiring manual labour is compared to exercise!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/05/2018 10:29

I regard [FD] as "pampering days" for my body, on which I eat only nourishing food, drink lots of water and have an early night

This is such a good idea. I've been thinking of them as challenges and trying to harness my inner competitor but a friend was talking about reprogramming what a treat is. So, instead of a slice of cake, a treat is a walk, or allowing herself 30 minutes to just lounge on the sofa and read a book. I think that can be applied here as FD do, if I am in the right space, leave me feeling clear.

I just need to stop thinking all the time that it is a FD or a NFD. I feel like the WOL is taking up too much of my consciousness at the moment. I'd really like it to become second nature...

frieda909 · 14/05/2018 11:58

I’ve just discovered the little ‘protein pots’ that they sell in M&S are an absolute godsend for FDs! I was very lazy yesterday and as a result was completely unprepared for FD today, food-wise. But my little 130cal pot of egg, avocado and quinoa with soy sauce was exactly what I needed for a late breakfast this morning!

I definitely learned my lesson last week about eating fruit on FDs. I was starving and had a meeting mid-morning so I thought I’d have a banana to keep me going... huge mistake! It was like the sugar woke up my stomach and I just ended up hungrier than ever Sad will be sticking to savoury on FDs now I think!

frieda909 · 14/05/2018 12:09

Oops that should say 180 cals not 130, I was thinking of another one that I picked up and put back. Still good though! I’m going to see if I can last until dinner now although I have soup in the office fridge if I can’t manage it.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2018 12:14

Those pots sound a great discovery, frieda

OP posts:
calzone · 14/05/2018 12:22

Thanks everyone

So supportive here 😀😀

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