Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 16:52

calzone I recommend newbies try 5:2 without counting on NFDs - just follow the

5:2 healthy habits:
No snacking, keep to NHS alcohol limits, sensible about treats

If your loss is not as expected, or if you plateau later (that's sts for 3weeks),
then I recommend mfp for a week, to review what you eat & drink.

Mosely's book assumed most people's "normal" eating was around TDEE - and this indeed works for many.

However, we found that some folk who have been overweight for years have got used to eating & drinking far more than their body burns,
so they have to retrain their "normal" on NFDs to be around

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 11/05/2018 16:52

Well I went out for brunch this morning and I'm still full so I'm thinking I shouldn't have dinner? But is that bad for me? Maybe some humous and veg sticks?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 16:52

TDEE

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 16:55

Wreck If you are not hungry, then don't eat.
Skipping NFD meals is NOT bad for you, or for your weight loss, providing you are not hungry

Reduced appetite is generally because your body is burning more of its fat for fuel, so leave it to do so Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 16:57

Well done on your SV, snail

Your meal sounds fine, calzone, with plenty of veg & beans for nutrients
Have a good drink of water as well

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 11/05/2018 16:58

Thanks BCF Smile I might start feeling pecking once I start the DC's dinner so will see how I go. I've been gardening Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/05/2018 17:50

Fab sv snail so close....
Fd going okay here, should come in just over 500 as I'm factoring in a sugar free jelly for pud a whole 7 cals! it'll be when ds is in bed and out come the beer and snacks that dh will munch on, need to be strong! Might just have an extra early night Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/05/2018 18:13

I'd say that was an nsv noway Smile

calzone · 11/05/2018 18:14

You are very helpful BigChoc.

Thank you.

How long have you been doing this for and how much weight have you lost?

Homemadehopeful · 11/05/2018 18:19

Thanks for the encouragement BCF, you're quite right I should know that I can nail a FD by the beginning of week 4!!

Just preparing dinner (lentil shepherds pie with green veg) and provided I eat that and nothing else FD will be 529 cals. It was the 89 cal packet of snack a Jack's at lunchtime which has pushed it over slightly. Am off to the gym while the children are both at Scouts so this will be a first time exercising on a FD. Does mean that by the time I get home it will be nearly time for a cup of herbal tea and book and bed, rock n roll Friday night here!!

purpleviolet1 · 11/05/2018 19:20

Agree BCF. And yes I found FD's And Ramadan similar in the sense that the first couple were difficult but after that FD's in particular are easy peasy Grin the Ramadan fasts do get easier as well

calzone · 11/05/2018 20:11

So a NFD for me.

B....toast with scrambled eggs, red onions and baked beans

L....tin mandarins and a skyr yoghurt
1/2 apple

D....chicken and chorizo traybake with new potatoes and red onions and asparagus
Dessert was mini meringues, cream, blueberries and squirty cream

I’ve now come to bed with a dose of Night Nurse......

FriendlyGhost · 11/05/2018 20:28

Just catching up. Bug that is amazing!
Forty I did the same as you yesterday and went over on my NFD. I did an extra FD today to compensate for it and also because I have the in laws visiting tomorrow so there will be lots of food and wine. I will need wine to survive Grin. I’m finding FDs much easier. I’ve been dashing around all day with the kids and didn’t really feel hungry until after I had dinner. Now I really want something sweet so I’m going to have a cup of tea instead and then go to bed.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 20:38

calzone I'm a longterm maintainer; I had a bit over a stone to lose, back in 2013, when I was just above healthy BMI
However, the weight loss was more of a happy bonus, because I do 5:2 for the health benefits of fasting

However, @talkinpeace is our longest-serving 5:2er and maintainer, with well over 5 years experience

I'm a STEM Phd and I was hunting through published science for healthy aging (I'm nearly 62 now) when I found that the leading experts were researching fasting, to reduce the risk of many chronic diseases of aging.

I listed some of the peer-reviewed science papers at the end of the OP, in the Section "Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 20:40

Easy-peasy, purple ? < snarls Grin >

OP posts:
HLBug · 11/05/2018 20:46

Thanks everyone, you're all very kind. Some fantastic SV and NSVs here today too - we're doing well, go Fasting Team!

Chesire to answer your specific questions, I've been reasonable on NFDs. Some times that was strict, sometimes not so much. The two biggest things that have got me to this point are actually quite easy to pick out: 1) no snacking (it's so simple but so true) and 2) meal planning. And by meal planning I mean doing a shop and then working out what we're going to have for tea each night, even if that is only 2 or 3 nights ahead. That helped me work out what to have for lunch (/ breakfast if I was having it) and made sure I kept to or below TDEE pretty much every 'normal' day. Also not eating if I'm not hungry (e.g. not eating dinner 'just because' if we'd been out for a pub lunch or something and I was still full) or saving myself if I know I'm going out for a big meal later on that day. I did, and still do, MFP every day and to be honest can't ever see myself giving it up - but I'm happy with that and don't feel tied to it. I just see it as part of my daily admin now.

In terms of weight history, my natural sticking point before I had kids was 11st 4lbs - so technically overweight as I think a healthy weight for my height starts at 10st 6lbs. I got down to 10st 3lbs for my wedding and felt amazing. It's only now I can see that that was still probably a bit on the big side for my small frame and so when I got to that goal this time around I felt comfortable that I could keep going.

After the wedding I went back to 11st 4lbs as I went back to my old ways of eating. I then put on a ridiculous 3 stone during pregnancy with DC1 but naturally got back to around 11st 4lb again reasonably easily with a bit of calorie counting and exercise (I took up running). Then DC2 came along, I put back on the 3 stone and this time it wasn't shifting so easily and I had no time for exercise (also post birth recovery was much longer this time around - I've only just started actively exercising again in the last couple of months). So 4 months after DD was born and I was still at 12st 12lb, and really needed something to help me. That's where 5:2 came in. I'm now quite happy to say I'm not planning any more kids so this is me and my body now, and I'm keeping it this way!

WreckTangled · 12/05/2018 07:46

0.4lb off this week (I've decided to weekly weigh). Which is disappointing but I'm hopeful that next week it'll look better.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/05/2018 08:07

Well done wreck

1lb off for me this week so that's 16lb in total Grin it's slow and steady (been doing this 12 weeks now) but I'm okay with that so long as it keeps coming off. Birthday on Tues and I have 2 or 3 meals out plus obligatory cake to navigate so going to be tricky. ... plus just realised it will all coincide with pmt / totm Confused so need to be strong.

Good luck anyone else weighing in today... and any sat faster's Smile

littleladylawyer · 12/05/2018 08:37

Well done wreck and fortythree. Where are you birthday meals out? You should definitely relax and enjoy them and some cake. Hopefully you can eat lightly the rest of the day.

I had a good nfd yesterday, walked 8 miles, did hiit workout and only had one glass of Friday fizz as I just didn't fancy any more- unheard of!

I had the cauliflower crust pizza for dinner last night. I found it a little bit dry, but it was really filling and completely satisfied my pizza craving. I don't want to give up real pizza for ever as I love it, but am going to try to have the cauli one more often and only have normal if I'm at a really top pizzeria-no more greasy dominos!!

littleladylawyer · 12/05/2018 08:38

Cooked pizza below for anyone interested!

5:2 Thread No. 76:  Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 12/05/2018 08:52

Yum that looks delish! Can we have the recipe please LLL? Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/05/2018 08:57

That pizza looks nice little did you make or buy the base?

Meals out are pub, fancy Mediterranean restaurant and possibly Thai place. I will just skip lunch etc to compensate but yes fully agree, have to enjoy the special occasions.

Well done on the 1 glass of fizz, that's some restraint Halo I have gone 2 Fridays now without any alcohol, had fd instead, I might try to make it a thing to curb weekend damage as Fri nights were always my downfall...

FriendlyGhost · 12/05/2018 09:20

Weighed myself today and I’m down another 1lb to 10st 1. I started at around 10st7 3 1/2 weeks ago so i’m delighted with this. I really want to see single figures now. I haven’t seen them since before children.
Dd2 woke up for what seemed like 100 night time feeds last night and I woke up with a bad headache and feeling hungry. The night feeds are definitely a lot harder after a FD. A small amount of marmite and a cup of tea sorted it quickly though.
Good luck to everyone fasting today.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2018 09:21

Well done on your SV, 43
Regular Friday FDs is an excellent plan - I implemented Saturday FDs for the same reason, to avoid my weekends undoing a week's hard work.

Excellent active NFD, lawyer and an NSV that you didn't want more than the one drink

Enjoy real pizza as an occasional treat, but go for thin crust and without any crust filling
Also, have a plate of salad with it (dressed with lemon / vinegar & oil, no mayo / cheese / crutons etc) so you don't need a whole pizza

wreck That's still an SV, moving in the right direction
However, check your NFD habits, as you may be regularly exceeding TDEE and hence eating back the FD deficit:

are you snacking

/ exceeding the NHS alcohol limits
/ having too many sweet "treats" (aim for 1 sensible portion and no more than every other NFD)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/05/2018 09:23

Excellent sv ghost you will soon be in single figures. Broken sleep is a killer so well done on getting through that, can you get time for a nap today?

Swipe left for the next trending thread