Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2018 22:31

Congrats on your compliments NSV, maz

OP posts:
HLBug · 10/05/2018 22:35

Thanks everyone. I think it'll take a while for me to realise I no longer need to lose weight - it's been something I've been so used to doing for almost a year now. The important thing will be to make sure my good habits are maintained and, as you rightly say BCF, I don't want to slip back into my old lifestyle and waistline.

I'll start with 2x 800 cal next week and see what happens. Eek.

yumyumpoppycat · 10/05/2018 22:37

Wowee Bug that is an amazing weight loss well done!

I went a bit over on mini fast today (1020) so will aim for one much closer to 800 at the weekend which will be fast 3.

Homemadehopeful · 10/05/2018 23:07

Wow, so great to hear about your success Bug very inspiring!!

Today was a NFD and I think I was around 1300, definitely not above 1400 so happy with that even though I caved in and drank the lonely bottle of Corona in the fridge while catching up on The Split. I did scan it on mfp to see what the calories were and it was only 139 which was better than I had expected to be honest this was after I had drunk it!!!

Week 4 begins tomorrow with my usual Friday FD. Fingers crossed for a pleasant weigh in in the morning!!

CheshireSplat · 10/05/2018 23:15

Bug you are amazing!!!

Can you tell me what you did. How strict were you on NFDs, did you MFP? Had you always been around 12 stone, wedding excepted? Etc etc?

My "normal" weight prechildren was around 10'7"-10'10", post children just over 11 stone. Got to 10 stone 1 for my wedding. That gets me to a BMI of 24.9 😀 I've found your story really inspirational and it makes me think maybe I'll be slim one day!! I've always been a little plump.

I've been so good this week, very pleased with myself. Only 1 snack in 4 days (a banana). Had a work meal out, had 3 courses which is unlike me (not usually fussed about pudding) but as it was fine-ish dining the portions weren't big.

Two big meals planned tomorrow so will be careful at the weekend and am planning at SV on Monday!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 10/05/2018 23:26

Flowers for bug well done! And thank you for your inspiration. Really helps for those of us who are just starting (or restarting) again!

OohMrDarcy · 11/05/2018 06:47

Morning all

But I missed your post! Massive well done on hitting goal, I can imagine it is an amazing but also slightly daunting feeling! As you now need to start getting used to maintenance... you will of course rock this just as you have the loss phase!

Weigh in this morning says I'm 1lb down, which smashes my 1.5 stone mini goal (total loss 1stone 7.5lb) ... slowly ticking them off Smile Next one to come is 10% of bodyweight lost, which is about 4lb away.
1lb seems a little low given how far I have to go, but I know I completely relaxed on my NFDs last weekend over the bank him, and a little more alcohol than usual was consumed too - pimms with theory weather [wink, so I'm happily taking that as a win Grin

frieda909 · 11/05/2018 07:19

Bug that is amazing! You are an inspiration! Well done you.

Just weighed myself after FD2 yesterday and I’m down 3lb! I know some of that is definitely water weight but I’m still really pleased. My tummy looks so much flatter too right now, I guess because it’s virtually empty!

NoWayNoHow · 11/05/2018 07:23

HLBug you are incredible! What an amazing weight loss journey, and such an inspiration. 4st in a year... wow... I started this WOE at a couple lbs more than you and if I can get anywhere near the 8s I'll be thrilled. You must be over the moon!!

Well done darcy on your SV and mini goal - I try to think about how far I've come rather than the huge amount still to go. 1.5st is a great achievement!

Weight this morning is down 1.5lbs which takes me to within 0.5lb of a stone's loss as well as seeing my weight start with an 11 again, which I'm desperate to see. Will have to wait another week now!

Shopping tomorrow for a dress - going to Queen's Garden Party next week and have nothing to wear!! Excited about what I'll be able to fit into compared to when I started this beginning Feb.

Do you think Her Maj will notice my weight loss?! WinkWinkWink

NoWayNoHow · 11/05/2018 07:24

X-post frieda - well done! 3lbs is a great loss!

Homemadehopeful · 11/05/2018 07:29

Friday weigh in and I am exactly 1lb down from last week at 10st 5.6lbs. A 3.4lbs loss over three weeks so I am happy with that as I have had plenty of treats in there too to make it not feel like a 'diet.

FD here and as usual I have that little voice in my head warning me of how tough it is going to be when in actual fact I have all my food already planned and every other FD has been fine. I will keep reminding myself that if I can crack last Friday I can survive today. Also I am out with friends tomorrow so it will definitely be a case of "you can have it tomorrow" when it comes to weekend wine Grin

quackingduck222 · 11/05/2018 07:52

I fell off the radar yesterday as I had no damn internet so just catching up on threads.

Congratulations Bug, you’ve done absolutely amazing 4 stone In a year is bloody fantastic stuff.
It probably will be alien at first not having to loose weight as it becomes a big part of your life.
I just want to echo what BCF has said about a target range. I have leeway of 2lbs under and 2lbs over target weight and it’s been essential for me. Weight still
Fluctuates daily but this keeps me on track if I go over I fast if I go under I eat extra.
You will do great at maintaining!

Well done Darcy on your losses, smashing this!

purpleviolet1 · 11/05/2018 08:32

Just posting to sAy massive well done to hlbug!!! Inspiration to us all.

I'm hovering around 8st 10/11lbs at the moment and with the month of Ramadan coming up its unlikely I'll be doing 5:2 consistently. I'm quite comfortable here for now and will probably have another last push around end of June to see if I can get down to 8st. I'm not sure I'll be fasting for Ramadan either as I've been quite run down.

Will keep posting 😀

OohMrDarcy · 11/05/2018 09:14

Well done all - lots of lovely SVs!

Noway - lucky thing off to a garden party next weekend.... is that for 'the' wedding?! Grin

frieda909 · 11/05/2018 09:24

purpleviolet1 I hope you don’t mind me asking, how do you find 5:2 fasting compares with Ramadan fasting? I was talking to an Ethiopian Orthodox lady recently and she was saying that she finds Lent fasting really easy as she’s been doing it for so long, so I wondered if she’d also find 5:2 super easy!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/05/2018 09:24

Morning everyone, just catching up on the thread as was in all day meetings yesterday. Amazing achievement bug you must be so happy Grin

Well done on all the SVs mrd frieda noway homemade and whoever else I have missed off, and of course her majesty will notice noway Grin Welcome back clear

Yesterday was awful in terms of TDEE, it was all 'brown' work lunch food - sandwiches, spring rolls, sausage rolls, cake etc - and whilst I tried to be mindful I would imagine I was over TDEE by the end of the day - a small quantity of that kind of calorific food doesn't fill me up so I had to have dinner also (which was low-ish cal) Anyway...............................................................

FD today to try and limit any damage from yesterday and also to limit any weekend damage I might inflict with friday night wine consumption - I managed last friday FD well enough so hoping I can be strong today even though its been a busy week - i can have it tomorrow Smile

Good luck fellow friday fasters,

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 09:46

Lots of lovely SVs again today Smile

HM Garden Party is so exciting, NoWay Smile
Enjoy a lovely day and wear that new dress as often as poss afterwards - it will probably be too loose after a couple of months !
Good steady progress and SV.
You are almost at your 1 stone milestone and into the 11 stone somethings, so that should help give you confidence next week to stride with pride - or maybe Curtsey with pride Wink

Congrats on your SV and 1.5 stone minigoal, MrD
That’s good you can relax for a day or so and still lose, because this weight loss phase needs to be sustainable for the long haul, when starting from higher BMI.

Well done on your SV, homemade
Now you know you can nail FDs and that they are nothing to be afraid of
I regard them as "pampering days" for my body, on which I eat only nourishing food, drink lots of water and have an early night

That's a good 1st week, Frieda with an SV and a flatter tum

bug It would be great if you could also post your story on the 5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread , which has reports from many of our 5:2ers who have reached goal.

It encourages newbies and those plucking up the nerve to start their journey, especially if you can give details like:
height, rough age, any before and after photos, weight and inches lost, whether you used mfp for a while, wht helped you etc

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 11/05/2018 09:49

Frieda not at all ask away. The fasts for Ramadan are a lot longer (no eating or drinking during daylight hours). The month moves back 10 days every year so when I was young the fast was only 7-4pm during winter months , now it is 3am-10pm! I don't find the actual fasts difficult but the lack of sleep is quite tough as we have prayers etc as well. The first couple of days can be tough as your body adapts but after that it's totally fine! It amazes me every year how we (Muslims) manage but thousands do!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 09:54

purple If you do decide to fast during Ramadan, then obviously pause 5:2 until Ramadan finishes

  • the fasting is a different type and when you have days without water, then 5:2 that week is too much loading on your bod

43 When we had such work lunches, I used to go outside for a walk instead and make it an FD
However, I know at some places you are expected to stay and network

Anyway, an FD today is an excellent idea, because it is much more effective to tackle any off-piste days immediately, especially if Friday is normally a heavy night which would have increased the damage

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/05/2018 09:58

Most Muslim 5:2ers say they found the FDs relatively easy, because they can drink water and have early nights.
They just have to remember not to have a huge Ramadan-type meal after sunset Wink

Did you also find FDs fairly easy, purple ?
it must be different when you are fasting on your own, without all the psychological support from your family & community that happens during Ramadan

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/05/2018 10:02

thanks BCF but yes unfortunately I had to stay and chat to the participants. Nothing so far yet on FD, got a chicken salad for lunch and will see what I can rustle up later....

calzone · 11/05/2018 11:18

I’ve done 2 fast days this week.

A NFD today.

What shall I eat?

I’m thinking scrambled eggs and baked beans on toast with mushrooms and red onions.

Does this sound ok?

snailhunter · 11/05/2018 14:26

Sounds fine, calzone. Do you know what your TDEE is for your NFDs and how many cals your lunch is?

SV for me today: down another pound to 9st 10lb. Only another 3lb to goal weight.

And well done bug - that is absolutely amazing. Congratulations, you're an inspiration?

calzone · 11/05/2018 14:41

I was hoping not to count calories on nfd as I’m eating sw style without over eating.

I think it’s 1400 calories.

NoWayNoHow · 11/05/2018 16:00

snail how great to be so close to goal! Amazing, well done!

Today gone a bit wrong - NFD and if I have what I'm supposed to have for dinner tonight, I'll already be 110cals over TDEE largely because of the chocolate ice-cream I just had

However! If this WOE has taught me anything, it's that it's ok to have days like this because my FDs automatically put me in deficit by 2,200cals so 110cals is a minor blip and I can enjoy my ice-cream!

It really is a huge relief to stop beating myself up about food - it's the habit of a lifetime, and I can feel it starting to break...