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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
UnnecessaryFennel · 08/05/2018 19:11

Hi all, just checking in after a while away from the thread. However I've kept up with the fasting and have now moved to a regular B2B every week. Am still really enjoying the freedom and flexibility of this WOE, and love seeing my stomach getting flatter too!

I tried on my gorgeous black Trousers of Truth the other day and, whilst they're still too tight to wear comfortably for any length of time, they do actually do up now! So I consider that a major NSV and am looking forward to be able to wear them out of the house sometime soon Grin

So FD today (didn't have one yesterday because family BBQs, gin with aromatic Fever Tree tonic, a pudding made with white chocolate, custard, raspberries and Chambord and a fast day don't mix Grin) and have just had a big slice of tortilla with salad. Will B2B tomorrow.

frieda909 · 08/05/2018 19:25

Right, that’s me done for the day! I made it through at 502 calories. Right now feels like a long time until bedtime and I’m a little lightheaded, but I think I’ll manage it. I have 12 different Pukka teas in my cupboard so will be breaking out one of those in a bit.

The early afternoon around 2:30 was the worst as I was on my feet a lot and all I could think about was how hungry I was. But then weirdly that feeling went away and I felt fine. Still hungry, but manageably so. As someone whose moods are normally very ruled by her appetite this is quite a revelation!

I also love that I know I don’t have to do this again tomorrow, and can actually look forward to having a nice breakfast in the morning. It feels like it’s much easier to get through when you can tell yourself ‘I’ll have that tomorrow’.

I think I’ll probably do Mondays and Wednesdays going forwards, but will see what works best. I also need to figure out where best to fit in my regular exercise routine... but anyway. So far, so good!

BlueBelle123 · 08/05/2018 20:07

Well done frieda

FD done here as well I only had one meal of chicken stirfry loads of veg and a half portion of noodles, so I reckon that must be around 500.....in such a hurry to make tea didn't have time to MFPBlush

Just come back from the gym as well so feeling pretty virtuous, will just drink loads this evening.

CheshireSplat · 08/05/2018 20:17

Well done everyone. Sounds great!

Good to hear that the trousers of truth are nearly a perfect fit, well done unnecessary

littleladylawyer · 08/05/2018 20:22

Hi everyone, just checking in- been off grid for a few days as been manically busy! Sadly didn't get a chance to try the cauli pizza but I wil hunt one out this week.

Well done to all those with svs and nsvs.

I ate loads over the last 4 days, felt really bloated and a bit yuck by yesterday so have enjoyed today's fast. Going to b2b tomorrow. I think I need to go cold turkey on sugary crap for a while as it's been creeping up. Might try a sort of sugar-free spring until my holiday in late June, to be as bikini ready as I'll ever be.

Well done to today's fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 08/05/2018 20:39

Hi Frieda, I cross posted with you this morning. Sounds like you’ve had a good first FD. Yes it’s surprising how the hunger disappears.

Homemade - yes 3 FDs so close together does sound a lot. How about 2 FDs and a mini?

Snail - wow you have been active this weekend. Hope your FD has gone well.

NoIdea - definitely do your measurements it’s so important. Hope you’ve had a great FD.

Cheshire- well done on on your SV stone breaker and your FD today.

NoWay - well done for rocking your FD.

Maz - glad you had a awesome holiday and big well done on your food choices sounds like you’ve done fantastic.

Fennel - well done for keeping at it. And that’s a great NSV with the trousers, keep trying them as they will fit comfortably very soon.

Little lady - good luck with your B2B.

FD done at 621, I have really struggled today and been grumpy and really hungry. Never mind tomorrow’s another day.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 21:05

That 11 stone is history, cheshire 👍
Well done on your FD

Welcome back, apricot Smile

Well done on the Trousers of Truth NSV, fennel
Next goal is to have them feeling comfy and then move to a trousers falling down NSV Wink

That's a holiday habits NSV, Maz

Sounds like your body has fully adapted to fasting, NoWay
Enjoy your 500 cal supper - include lots of veg still, but you can afford say to drizzle lovely healthy olive oil on top

lawyer It takes 4-8 weeks to reduce sugar cravings and build a new habit
Some folk prefer to go completely sugar-free;
others do better 2:5ing sugary treats, i.e. one moderate portion on 2 NFDs per week

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 21:07

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, Fried
A favourite 5:2 mantra on FDs is "I can have it tomorrow" Wink
5:2 is sustainable longterm, because you can relax 5 days per week without "dieting"

Most exercisers can train on FDs, but I recommend avoiding long medium intensity cardio sessions, because these use glycogen stores, which will be low on an FD,
so avoid any running or swimming sessions longer than 30 mins.

Best exercise for FDs: HIIT, lifting / resistance, or a brisk walk outside

If you are feeling a bit weak or headachy,I recommend a teasp Marmite, or a hot Bovril, or a tbsp u sweetened soy sauce;
each are only about 10 cals and will replenish the lost salt that can cause such symptoms when fasting.

Then have a glass of water and clean your teeth - this genuinely reduces the temptation to eat again.
I always recommend an early night on FDs, to maximise fasting benefits for your bod

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 21:11

Well done too on your FD, wreck, cheshire, fennel, blue, duck and all the other Tuesday fasters

duck Most folk can maintain on 700- 800 cal FDs, so you are fine

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 21:13

A tbsp UNweetened soy sauce for FD headaches

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 08/05/2018 21:18

My FD fell through yesterday and I didn't bother today. Was at work both days.

I think I'm going to fast on days when I'm at home as that seems more feasible for now.

So roll on FD tomorrow

snailhunter · 08/05/2018 21:27

All done here, hooray! Well done to all. Looking forward to breakfast!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 21:38

Well done, snail

Good luck tomorrow, purple
Plan your FD menu in advance and stay busy Smile

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 08/05/2018 21:43

That's useful to know about time taken to beat the craving BigChoc. It's odd, I never had a sweet tooth until I lost that stubborn 7lb extra I had at the start of last year, then I suddenly started wanting sweet things.

I think I'm quite an all or nothing person so will try having no sweet junk until my holiday and see how I go after, maybe introduce a sensible portion of good quality sweet things one day per week.

I managed to cut down my drinking from sharing a bottle of wine most evenings to weekends only since October, and can now take or leave booze so I know I can break bad habits if I can stick out the initial cravings.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/05/2018 22:22

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Homemadehopeful · 08/05/2018 22:51

Under 500 calories here so pleased with that. Will see how tomorrow goes as to whether it is a FD or mini. Already have egg salad prepared for lunch so with a protein yogurt will be around 200, then will aim for 400 calorie dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2018 22:53

Well done, lawyer on a brilliant habit NSV for alcohol
When you started here, you sounded quite worried about booze holding you back.
That change is really impressive and should help both health & weight management longterm

Well done, mother, homemade

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 08/05/2018 23:06

Hi everyone - wow it has been busy on here today Grin I guess lots of Monday fasters joining the Tuesday fasters.

I have done a mini fast - planning on 3 of those this week. Went a bit over 800 but a good day overall.

I have made a little adjustment on my fitness pal and renamed one of the meals as treats so I can keep an eye on sugary white carby stuff... and lattes sob.

Duck 600 is great under the circumstances of a not good fast day - hope your next one is a breeze!

Well done on your steps and swimming motheroffourdragons! Going swimming with kids can be fun - apart from the getting dressed afterwards, bit which seems to cause universal stress!

Well done everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2018 07:03

Morning all
Another T-shirt & shorts day here, 27C Grin < skips for joy >

A mini is 800-1000, yumyum so you nailed it
If you do 3 minis, loss is equivalent to 5:2 with 500 FDs

OP posts:
bluerunningshoes · 09/05/2018 07:33

fd here today

good morning all wednesday fasters.

am off work today, so a bit nervous if I can keep my nerve with all the temptation around.
I will keep myself busy.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 09/05/2018 07:34

Oh lord the bank holiday has really thrown me off track!
Had been powering along doing Monday & Weds FDs and am going to have to do Weds/Fri this week Confused
Posting here for accountability!
Good luck all Wednesday FDers! Smile

quackingduck222 · 09/05/2018 07:48

BCF - I usually always fast at 800 now but I did over indulge at the weekend.

Purple good luck for your FD today.

Little lady- I can relate to your post. I am also a all or nothing. I can go months without chocs then will binge loads in one sitting. One thing that helped was taking them out the equation for about 6 weeks. Then when I have them occasionally it is lovely and I enjoy them. Have you tried either 80 / 90% coco chocolate? It’s very hard to over indulge. Most posters swear it kills there sugar craving.

Mother of four good luck for your FD today.

Poppycat - you nailed your mini FD even if you didn’t know it. 800-1000 on a mini.

I’ve left my online shopping so late again I missed today’s slots. So I’m having a mystery tea tonight of seeing what I can make out of the freezer. Crossing my fingers that there is some fish / chicken and veggies.

quackingduck222 · 09/05/2018 07:49

Good luck to today’s fasters

WreckTangled · 09/05/2018 08:10

Second FD OF B2B today. Blah.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/05/2018 09:15

morning everyone, nfd yesterday was a bit of a disaster, don't really know why but i wanted to eat the world Confused
FD today though but as other posters have said, the bank holiday has thrown everything out of sync, so I'm at home today like you blue and i have to do weds and fri FDs smiled we can do it!!!

Well done to all the fasters yesterday, too many to mention, and good luck to weds FD.

Nothing yet, going to have a mushroom omelette for lunch and a small tuna steak and salad or stir fry for dinner Grin