Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
quackingduck222 · 01/05/2018 08:08

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 01/05/2018 08:12

FD1 yesterday - felt harder than before. Maybe because of the crappy weather? Was a bit grumpy by kid's bed time Confused

GrannyPenny · 01/05/2018 09:00

Hi all, just checking back in to stay I am still plugging away at this WOL . Not managed a FD for a few weeks so more like maintenance with 16:8 but bad habits are beginning to creep back in and I need to rein them in.

Goals for today. Gym class this morning. Late lunch. Prioritise and tick 3 things off my very long 'to do' list. No snacking. Pilates this evening. Evening meal. Early night - hopefully before midnight.

So glad the sun is shining here this morning.

Have a good Tuesday everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 09:50

Your FD was fine, wreck
For future FDs, I recommend keeping a boiled egg in the frig as an emergency top-up:
you don't need sugar, but you may need calories, which are best from protein, fat, veg.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 09:55

Hi, Granny If you are at goal, I suggest you maintain on 6:1, so try to plan an FD this week

Generally, it sounds like the snacking habit remains the issue to tackle permanently.
Are your meals of sufficient size ?
Also, lowering the GI of your meals and boosting beans, lentils & peas will help control blood sugar, hence reducing temptation.

OP posts:
Gammeldragz · 01/05/2018 09:55

Morning all, FD for me today.

Quacking not b2b, just Sunday.

FD planned for Thursday but tomorrow may end up being one as well as I'm off to London for the day, to a lobbying meeting in parliament. Had to panic order a load of smart clothes yesterday (only cheap asda stuff) as I don't own any. Used to when I worked in an office but I was a 16-18 then. Tried on some size 12 smart trousers in Tesco yesterday and they fit (apart from being too short - no longer leg stuff anywhere hence ordering online), but Tesco comes up big I find. Have ordered everything in 12 and 14, will have fun trying it all on tonight!

CheshireSplat · 01/05/2018 10:20

Wow Gammel what an exciting day. Sounds v glam!!! And a fantastic NSV.

To those struggling with putting small children to bed when on a FD, I completely sympathise. I used to get really grumpy too, it seems to take hours. I've now taken to being a bit more selfish, I get home on a FD and declare to DH that I'm eating tea then, and have something quick, like an omelette or something I've batch cooked so can just reheat. And then I do bedtime. It's been a massive change for us, tbh. Before 5:2 meal times were our time together, we ate about 9 once the children were quiet, which also meant I'd have a snack around 7 because I was starving. We still eat together usually, but not now on my FDs, so it's required a change from DH too. But the scales and my waist are showing the results; sometimes we need to put our own needs first.

On day 2 of B2B and not hungry at all. Had about 600 cals yesterday. Have a hard-boiled egg, a raw carrot (whole not chopped up, tip from TiP years ago) and some cucumber for lunch and will enjoy my evening meal, I have no doubt. Smile

Getting lots of compliments that I look slimmer or "well" so loving this WOL. Feel happier in myself. Have to say thanks to BCF for ever-so-gently pointing out that I just eat too much!!!

Iamblossom · 01/05/2018 10:28

thanks for all good wishes and support you lovely lot.

the 100km is in September. It is this

Lots of people do run it the nutters.

Last year we did the Cotswolds Way and quite frankly it was like open warfare "No you carry on, just leave me!!" "NO! We never leave a man behind!!" type stuff. Seriously. This one will be blister tastic but it's got to be flatter - right??? Hmm

Weighed in at 8 10 after my FD yesterday - pleased with that. Am in maintenance so will prob not fast again now till Monday.

What weight do you "count"? Your post FD one or your one pre-fasting?

WreckTangled · 01/05/2018 10:35

BCF I needed something sugary/carby as diabetic and sugar level was too low to go to bed on.

applelolly · 01/05/2018 10:54

Morning all
Fast day in progress here. Black coffee and water only so far. Have got my bovril for lunch time. Need to plan eating timings for this evening as I am also going to body attack!

CheshireSplat · 01/05/2018 11:09

blossom I count prefasting, my Monday morning weight. That's about 3 lbs heavier than my post FD2 weight.

I feel that's more my true weight, than when my stomach is empty. But as long as you're comparing like for like, it doesn't really matter does it?

snailhunter · 01/05/2018 11:17

How nice to hear all the positive changes and goals! Your walk sounds awesome lamblossom and good on you for changing the routine for the better cheshire. My DH works weird unpredictable hours and is often back late - I made it very clear long ago that I would not be waiting for him and it works fine for us! He usually sorts himself out for food when he gets home, or I stick a baked potato in for him.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 13:36

wreck I didn't realise you were diabetic.
Mosely (re BSD, but would apply to 5:2) says diabetics often need 800 cal FDs,
so you could switch to those if you prefer, or just keep that as a bakup plan for any FD

Congrats on your compliments NSVs, cheshire
and that's a real lighbulb moment that many women need: " sometimes we need to put our own needs first."

Your 100km buddies sound like the US Marines, blossom Grin

Enjoy dressing up in your new smart clothes, gammel I'm sure you will look cool and professional.
But do wash your hands thoroughly after you meet any politicians Wink

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 01/05/2018 13:52

Yes, type one, but with an insulin pump so theoretically should be easier to manage

Couldn't eat all of my lunch today as too full! And I didn't buy that muffin I was craving yesterday Wink

NoWayNoHow · 01/05/2018 16:21

I just want to come on for a mini rant. I'm still sick, flaming temperature at work, plus 3 days in advance of TOTM and I've apparently turned into a walking sausage stuffed too tight into its skin.

Feel so fat and bloated and horrible!!!! And that's after a FD yesterday too! Sad

Does anyone else feel really really horrible at TOTM? I swear I gain 2 dress sizes!!

yogi47 · 01/05/2018 16:30

Just popping in for some help and inspiration. Worked at home today in the end and a FD has been so much harder. The biscuits are literally shouting my name. Determined to push on and have 300 cals left for dinner. And to top it all I'm feeling your pain too NoWay.....

littleladylawyer · 01/05/2018 16:54

Fantastic nsvs cheshire. I'm really glad you've said that about putting yourself first with dinner times, I have been having the same struggle but you've made me feel much better, and that I shouldn't feel guilty if I need to eat my dinner before 9:30.

wreck well done on the muffin resistance!

noway that sounds horrible. I've heard Epsom salt baths can be very effective for bloating but I've not tried it myself. Hope you feel better.

yogi I'm working from home today too- it's so much harder! Luckily there isn't any junky food in the house because I ate it all over the weekend which helps!

Decided to do b2b today as got to 2:30 without being hungry so seemed easiest just to carry on. Am very much looking forward to dinner though!

OohMrDarcy · 01/05/2018 18:01

Evening all

Currently on course for a successful FD (360 at present) and feeling confident to smash it... phew!

Blossom, don't know if you remember but a couple of years back I did the moonwalk (trained whilst doing 52 first time around)... been debating doing the Thames path ever since! You must let me know what it is like!

applelolly · 01/05/2018 18:17

evening all
fd still in progress. Had large plate of salad leaves, pepers, cucumber, tomato,radish with 2 boiled eggs and some ham when I got in from work around 5.30. Other than that have had 1 cup bovril and an apple and a 10 cal jelly(!) Logged at around 350 so far. Am off out to body attack now, then planning Greek yog with berries for the final 150 after class then off to bed!! (not tried body attack on a fd yet, feel ok though so hope I can manage it!)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 19:25

Sound grim, noway and I suggest you don't try to fast, just give yourself TLC

With a temperature like that you really shouldn't be expected to be at work, unless your employers are total shits.
Get better soon Flowers - it will be quicker if you can stay home in bed and drink lots of water

The hormonal changes at totm cause water retention, so most women put on 2-3 lb then, but some poor souls put on 7lb or more
Added to that, some illnesses cause fluid retention too.

MrD I remember your moonwalk and training for it
It really energised you in body & mind, so go for it if you can find another long walk to join Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 19:27

noway It may sound counter-intuitive to recommend drinking more water with water retention, but it does help.

Once you have recovered, then 1 or 2 FDs should zap all that bloat

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 01/05/2018 20:10

NFD finished at 1400 cals. 150 under my TDEE.

purpleviolet1 · 01/05/2018 20:24

My Fd went to pot again today. Really badly. I forgot to weigh myself this morning (and I really wanted to as a new start point) and I think my mindset just got all messed up. I had weetobix for breakfast and as it was my second day at work after maternity leave and I had a full lunch hour to kill without any distractions , I was a bit lost and ended up going to costa and buying a brownie Blush I then went back to the office and thought f it, I've wrecked the fast now so I had crisps and chocolate from the vending machine Blush the canteen was closed by the time. This is very unlike me. I've cooked a roast chicken and have ordered a mixed kebab Blush so massive epic fail.

I thought I could do my two fd on my work days (mon, tue Thursday) but I may need to rethink that. Perhaps because I haven't actually started any work yet and I've been pretty bored, I've just wanted to stuff my face. Or perhaps it's because I can do it in peace and quiet without ds Grin who knows.

Still going to try and fit two FD in this week though as I do feel physically better. Just need to get my mind in the right place. Any tips?

I always find it difficult to get back on the FD wagon but once I'm on I'm absolutely fine.

purpleviolet1 · 01/05/2018 20:24

On a positive note I drank absolutely loads of water today and was at the loo every hour at work

HLBug · 01/05/2018 20:27

B2B day 2 finishing on 620 calories. Phew. I'm aching all over today after Pump last night - every time I bend down I really feel it and carrying DD age 1 up the stairs tonight was a real effort! Definitely in need of an early night and some good energy boosting food tomorrow carbs.

quacking despite my moans and groans I'd say give pump a go though - it's a mix between weights and core strength exercises. It's gotta be doing me some good, surely?! I'm also getting into the swing of Zumba much more now that I know the routines - I even have a couple of favourite tracks now. I've also been doing body combat and body step occasionally - step I absolutely love and combat I kinda tolerate for the hope that it'll improve the flabby bingo wings I'm currently sporting. Writing all that out it sounds like quite a lot - plus the walking to work etc. Maybe I should be moving up to "lightly active" for TDEE - at least for some NFDs. Hmm...

Definitely not fit enough to do Body Attack yet though - hats off to apple for braving that particular torture every week Grin

Swipe left for the next trending thread