Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
NoWayNoHow · 30/04/2018 18:09

Hey all. wreck , cheshire , friendly , littlelady , snail , pumper and HLBug I hope you all haven't found the FD doubly hard with this revolting weather - bcf hope the weather improves for the rest of your staycation!

Welcome back darcy and purple - we missed you!

Congrats gammel and cheshire on your SVs.

I tried my best to do as close to a fast day as possible today, but being hungry as well as being ill wasn't working for me and my stomach was actually hurting by mid-afternoon. Afraid no snacking rule got broken by a 100cal flapjack biscuit as that was all that was in the office, and it helped me keep going till home.

Bulked out nutrients for dinner by adding lots of veg to omelette, and kitchen will close nearer to 700cals, but not going to stress about a couple hundred calories if it helps my shift this bug faster.

NoWayNoHow · 30/04/2018 18:12

Missed you lamb - my phone typing is too slow! Glad FD went well - amazing walk yesterday!

Iamblossom · 30/04/2018 18:23

noway thanks! Did one last year and it must be like childbirth as I said never again, but that was the Cotswolds Way and this is the Thames Pathway - gotta be flat right????

Don't beat yourself up re the biscuit, sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to get through, no point being in actual physical discomfort!!

FriendlyGhost · 30/04/2018 19:43

The things I learned today:

  • It’s much harder fasting when it’s cold. I had to turn the heating right up this evening because I couldn’t get warm.
  • Don’t ever give your children snacks in the car when you’re fasting. There was no escape from the delicious smell and it made me hungry.
  • Solo bedtime on a fast day is not easy. My patience doesn’t stretch far when I’m hungry.
Anyway I managed to survive on 450 calories so enough left over for an options hot chocolate when the children are finally asleep. If that ever happens.
WreckTangled · 30/04/2018 19:47

Friendly I sniffed ds' cereal bar earlier Blush it was so good Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2018 19:58

NoWay 700 cals is excellent for n FD when you are feeling poorly

Well done on your FD too, Wreck

Now, fasters: glug some water and clean your teeth, to avoid temptation.
Then an early night in a lovely warm bed, to maximise TLC and fasting benefits.

Most impressive training walk yesterday, blossom
Good luck for the main event - 100 km ! Shock

Friendly For FDs in cold weather, I recommend hot Bovril (10 cals) and (preferably unsweetened) tea - ginger & lemon herbal tea is extra warming.

OP posts:
Pinkvici22 · 30/04/2018 19:59

Thanks for all the welcomes! I did my first FD of the week today...currently coming in at 370 cals on MFP so I’m seriously contemplating the best possible low calorie evening snack!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2018 20:00

Well done, Friendly and I hope the DC feel sleepy

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2018 20:02

Very good 1st FD, pink
You could have a boiled egg and some veg / natural Greek yoghurt or Skyr with a few berries & flaked almonds

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 30/04/2018 20:13

noway don't worry about the biscuit- as lamb said it's not worth having actual stomach pains for the sake of 100cal!

Very impressed with your walk lamb, I'm trying to get into walking and am really enjoying it, nothing like as impressive as yours though, 100km sounds insane!

friendly today has been horrible, I hate the cold. My lips were purple when I got home, I think I need to take bigchoc's advice re bovril as I don't like tea or coffee but need something to warm me up!

Well done pink! 370 is a brilliant first fast day.

I'm just waiting for my chicken and huge mound of veg to cook, will be around 400. Then snuggling under the duvet with the heating up for an early night!

WreckTangled · 30/04/2018 20:27

I'm hungry. Might go to bed as dh is eating chocolate cookies Envy

Ds said to me earlier 'mummy I love sleeping on your fat tummy because it all squishy and comfy' HmmSadGrin

bluerunningshoes · 30/04/2018 20:44

sooo, I've decided to do my first fd on wednesday. busy at work. then fd mondays and wednesdays should work for me.
hope it will be ok, stomach noise wise...

thanks for the tip about bovril. I assume a weak marigold broth would also work?

snailhunter · 30/04/2018 20:46

Kitchen closed with lovely new FD dinner - chicken ramen noodles with sweetcorn and broccoli, just 350 cals. Then greek tog and now ginger tea which is the one thing that has seen me through my fasts during the Long Winter! I remember fasting when it was minus 7...

littleladylawyer · 30/04/2018 20:58

Haha wreck I feel your pain- DP grabbed my lovehandles when I was slumping on the sofa over the weekend and made a wobbly jelly sound. Clearly I'm in need of the 30 day shred before summer!

snail that sounds yum, noodles always take me a while to eat (especially if I attempt chopsticks) so I actually recognise when I'm full.

applelolly · 30/04/2018 21:15

very quick check in from me as I need to get ds2 to bed!
managed reasonably close to tdee yesterday and ended the weekend weighing the same as on Friday which is amazing for me!
crazy busy day at work today which meant I ate rubbish food, but not a lot of it so was under tdee.
got in much later than expected but did manage 30 mins on the treadmill
first fd of the week tomorrow.

Pinkvici22 · 30/04/2018 21:19

Final FD check in....465!

Glass of water and an early night for me. This thread is great, you’re all so supportive!

purpleviolet1 · 30/04/2018 22:04

Going to attempt a FD tomorrow.

HLBug · 30/04/2018 22:20

Well done to all today's Fasters, and particularly to pink for nailing your first day - enjoy some lovely yummy meals tomorrow.

My Zumba / BodyPump back to back was actually ok, although it is a late night for me (pump finishes at 9.40pm). My legs and arms feel like jelly now so I can't wait to see what they're like in the morning Confused It was the chest tracks that I found the hardest BCF.

FD finished at about 548. Now off to bed...

yogi47 · 30/04/2018 22:31

Hello, hello everyone.... Just had a good catch up as have not checked in for a few days. B2B here. Just completed Day 1 619 calories and off bed with herbal tea. Day 2 tomorrow all planned and prepped and kept me busy and focused (and hands out of the biscuit tin ). I am totally in awe of weekend FDs, well done to everyone's SVs/NSVs - so motivating to hear all of these when it feels tough and life is happening. Good luck to everyone on a FD tomorrow.... Plan to buy bovril on my way into work to give that a go. 12 weeks in, 11.5lbs down but TOTM this week so not expecting too much! Night all!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2018 00:02

Well done, Monday fasters
and also to bug for nailing the gym sessions on an FD - now you know you can do this. Any soreness is just your muscles getting stronger Wink

Congrats on your SV, yogi Good progress

OP posts:
Homemadehopeful · 01/05/2018 07:23

Fairly successful FD here yesterday, think I ended around 560 so ok. Planning on being very careful today and tomorrow as although I have now done my 2 FD for the week Friday seems a long way off yet!

Snail I can not imagine fasting when the weather is-7!!! Yesterday was bad enough!

HLBug I'm glad zumba / body pump went ok. I used to do pump until I got my on going shoulder issue and as I'm not sure if it is that that caused it I am a bit worried about going back.

100km is very impressive lamb!! I love walking and think it is a really underrated exercise!

Good luck to everyone fasting today, I am still in awe of those of you who do B2B!!

WreckTangled · 01/05/2018 07:29

I had to eat a chocolate cookie before bed last night (sugar level issue) so went to bed at 603 Sad feels like a bit of a fail. NFD today.

Pinkvici22 · 01/05/2018 07:43

Morning all! NFD here for me and it’s DPs birthday. Just having overnight oats with strawberries and chopped walnuts, have a small chicken salad for lunch and steak and veg/salad for dinner.

yogi47 · 01/05/2018 07:47

No wreck - that's still a great FD. I know the rule is no snacking and I'm sure BCF will be along to reassure but one cookie before bed, and a 600 total is not going to impact. Sometimes a cookie is just what you need.... No guilt! Have a good day today!

Rolling into FD2 of a B2B, 100 cal veggie omelette done ✅. Good luck everyone today!

quackingduck222 · 01/05/2018 07:59

FriendlyGhost - Don’t be so hard on yourself. You went for a run that’s amazing. With the meal choices like you said it could of been a lot worse.

Purple- I hope you feel better soon.
That is really strange about your TOTM but I’ve always thought diet can interfere with it.

Little Lady - Hope your FD went well.
And what a incredible NSV with your cake.

Snail - it’s hard when you get FDs like that. Sometimes you breeze through and others you feel like eating your own arm.

Pumper - good luck with the MFP weaning and your B2B.

Bug - B2B gym classes that sounds hard. How you getting on with Zumba now? You will have to come back and tell us what pump was all about.

Tangled- well done on your FD.

Bloody hell Lamb 27km is loads. And wow your also doing a 100km, my DH is doing one next month but wants to run the majority. I still can’t comprehend just how far that is. When is your event?

Noway - well done on your FD despite being ill that’s a huge achievement. Hope you feel better soon.

FriendlyGhost- you may have to invest in some fleeces and warm PJs. FDs are a bugger for feeling the cold.

Pink - congratulations on your first FD and 370 cals is bloody amazing.

Running Shoes - that’s a great plan FDs when your busy is so much easier.

Swipe left for the next trending thread