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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2018 22:57

Gobble Your FD sounds ok
For most folk, the most important factor they can influence (can*t change height or age) is what they consume on NFDs
So stay sensible on those, be patient and the weight should come off reasonably

If you've a fair way to go, then set lots of mini-goals:
every 5 lb, then every 5kg, getting into a new stone region and a big milestone when you drop into a lower BMI class

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2018 22:58

That's a grim thought: that we've also been eating worse than crushed bugs Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2018 23:01

Don't worry, underpants A couple of FDs can get rid of any mum damage

OP posts:
snailhunter · 30/04/2018 07:23

FD for me today! Bloody freezing here. I could really do with winter being over.

HLBug · 30/04/2018 07:24

FD for me here too Smile

Homemadehopeful · 30/04/2018 07:25

Bugger!! Just done a Monday morning weigh in and the weekend hen do damage is not good!! Nearly (but not quite) gained back the lose from week 1 Sad We are away for the bank holiday weekend Fri - Mon too so will need to readdress NFDs, especially weekends!

Very well done to those who resisted over the weekend and good luck to Monday fasters. Was considering a mini fast today but think I better do the whole hog!!!

NoWayNoHow · 30/04/2018 07:35

Morning all. Sorry, haven't caught up the last fees days of the thread, but congrats on all SVs and NSVs!

FD here for me too, but have picked up stinking cold over the weekend. Would take it easier today, but it's one month and counting till I flee to the sun with my very thin, cycling-fit friend and there's so much more weight I want to have list by then!

Will focus on Marmite for nutrients, lots of water, and rooibos tea with honey and lemon which always helps my throat honey might just have to be my extra calories today

OohMrDarcy · 30/04/2018 07:37

Morning all,

Been camping with the DC this weekend. Didn't weigh in on Fri as hadn't had any FDs, weighed this morning and happy to report I've STS which is better than expected with no fasts and a fun weekend.

Feeling back to normal now and plotting first FD this week for tomorrow

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 30/04/2018 08:20

FD here too.
It's freezing isn't it!
Just checked the weather and it's due to get warm by the end of the week so that's cheered me up a bit Smile

Gammeldragz · 30/04/2018 08:23

NFD here, FD yeswwas OK but not great, mainly because my dinner was disappointing and didn't feel worth waiting all day for! Had chicken thighs and roasted veg but the only veg in were carrots, parsnips and Celeriac (no greens!) so far too sweet and overpowering. Made me feel sick.
Went swimming for an hour though.
Weight down nicely today on last week. Graph is looking good.

Good luck all Monday fasters!

bluerunningshoes · 30/04/2018 08:23

do you have your fd on a work day?

how do you keep stomach noises down?

WreckTangled · 30/04/2018 08:24

FD for me too. Weather is awful!

CheshireSplat · 30/04/2018 08:45

Morning all.

Weighed in this morning and I lost 1/2 lb which I'm really pleased with because I haven't been amazingly strict this week and it means I'm retaining my goal (for 3 weeks in a row) of never seeing my weight start with a 11!!!

Had a weekend in London with my very thin (think verging on the eating disorder) friend and matched her food for 28 hours (except I had one extra pint of beer...). We had amazing food, spicey Peruvian eggs, a brunch to die for, for actually not that much and it was all top quality. Except then I also had a M&S meal deal and two slices of bread and butter when I got home + a lovely (but small) mexican meal with the family when I got home.

So, feel I've eaten very mindfully except for a very-tired stodge binge yesterday afternoon and have been rewarded by the scales.

Gym at lunchtime and b2b today and tomorrow so am feeling positive. Today should be easy - feel full after yesterday, have only got bovril with me and am out at a football match all evening.

Away camping with above 4 families for the bank holiday weekend, so will have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

Good luck all FDers. Anyone else b2bing?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2018 09:06

Good luck to the Monday fasting gang Smile

I have a staycation this week, hoped for sunny Rhine walks after gym - um OK, I'll have grey Rhine walks
Off for my morning walk to the farmshop soon, pump class this evening

Well done on your SV cheshire

looks like you are safely under 11 stone now

blue FDs are easier on days when you are busy, which is working days for most folk
I have hot tea (no sugar or milk) and hot Bovril (10 cals) to keep my stomach from complaining
For breakfast & lunch, I often have a mug of cocoa made with water and a drizzle of cashew milk,
plus I glug a teasp Marmite (10 cals) to avoid headaches

Rumbles tend to happen in the first 2-3 weeks, but not so much once your tum has adapted to fasting

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/04/2018 09:09

Morning everyone and well done on all the svs and nsvs Grin

Managed to find an m&s yesterday and got some salads and wine to take back to hotel so over tdee yesterday but feeling much better today. Just sat in Starbucks with a skinny vanilla latte which will keep me going till lunch and I've spied quite a few subways / salad places so I'll nip out for something. Not sure what tonight will hold but I will be as mindful as I possibly can, working away is a bloody pain! Looking to try a fd on weds when I'll be busy travelling back but if not then definitely Thurs. Good luck Monday fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 30/04/2018 09:14

Gammel - did you do a B2B fast over the weekend?

Homemade - when you regain a little it seems to come off as quick as it went back on. A good poop and a FD should see you right again.

Noway - Hope you feel better soon.

Darcy - That’s really good that you’ve STS and you had a great weekend away.

Smiled & snail wish I would of seen your posts before school run it is bloody freezing today.

Cheshire- that’s a great SV. Sounds like you had a fab weekend too. Good luck for your B2B.

Good luck to everyone doing a FD or B2B.

I’m going to try and be mindful this week as I’m out to lunch tomorrow for a afternoon cream tea and we have a BBQ the weekend but luckily it’s at ours so I’m in control of food but I make have a couple of very rare drinks.

FriendlyGhost · 30/04/2018 09:34

Checking in for another fast day today. I woke up hungry which wasn’t a great start but i’ve done the shred and preschool run and then out for dd’s swimming lesson in a bit so hopefully that will keep me distracted. I’m currently drinking a coffee with a tiny splash of milk to try to fill me up.
The weekend wasn’t terrible. I went for a 5k run on Saturday. We had a take away with some friends but it was a Chinese and the only veggie option was stir fried veg and noodles. The noodles were greasier than I would have liked but it was better than pizza or curry and at least there was plenty of veg. I was very lazy yesterday and snuggled up with dd1 to watch frozen for the 1000th time. I’m always a lot more active in the week though so I hope it evens out. My weigh in day is tomorrow so it will be interesting to see if i’ve lost anything. I suspect not but we’ll see.

purpleviolet1 · 30/04/2018 09:41

Morning all,

Think it's been over two weeks since I've fasted. We've all had a bad cold and conjunctivitis, tonsillitis for dh, really bad thrush for me and TOTM has been very late (usually 29 day cycle and this time it's been 33 days and doesn't seem 'normal'). Really odd stuff. Feel super bloated.

I started back at work on thurs and my mum was rushed in for emergency surgery (appendicitis) so it's all been crazy.

I'm feeling slightly better but not 100%. Just wanted to share that I fee fabulous In my new work wardrobe though Grin not sure if I'll fast today but I'm just going to listen to my body.

littleladylawyer · 30/04/2018 12:28

Hi all, checking in for a fd on this bloody freezing Monday. Not sure if b2b so will keep to 500 and see how I feel tomorrow.

I felt like baking on Saturday so made a white chocolate and pistachio cake, had a small slice with DP but took the rest over to my mum's house rather than keep picking at it. Our electric beater broke so it felt like quite the arm workout doing it completely by hand!

Some really positive svs and nsvs- I'm in awe of anyone fasting over a weekend. Good luck Monday fasters!

snailhunter · 30/04/2018 12:47

Bah, I am finding it really hard today. Probably because I have a really boring piece of work to do. And it's cold. I now realise that what I thought was my awesome willpower for the last couple of weeks was probably just a result of the weather improving...

Pumperthepumper · 30/04/2018 13:12

First day of B2B today. Also trying to wean myself off MFP because I’m so sick of logging everything. Best of luck to everyone today 👍

WreckTangled · 30/04/2018 14:59

I might get a ready meal from Cook on the way home from work as they do low cal ones and I can bump it up with veg. Otherwise I will be tempted to eat the oven food the dc are having for dinner (swimming lessons tonight so will be a quick turnaround).

HLBug · 30/04/2018 16:53

On pure impulse I've booked in for a pump class after Zumba tonight. Eek. Any tips for an ultimate beginner BCF? FD should close on about 550 today - undecided about a B2B tomorrow.

purple I was thinking we hadn't seen you for a few days Thanks for you and I hope things start to get better soon - it never rains and all that!

WreckTangled · 30/04/2018 17:13

Kitchen closed at 476. Right now I'm dreaming of a big blueberry muffing tomorrow, I probably won't fancy it then though which I suppose is the great thing about the 5:2!

Iamblossom · 30/04/2018 18:05

Hi all.

Better fd today than last week, should finish on 600.

Walked the dog in the rain for an hour.

Walked 27km yesterday as training for a non-stop 100km charity walk, so decided to just stay in bed till 11 this morning which kept me out of the kitchen! Also treated myself to a 60 minute massage at lunchtime. Heaven.

Have had 4 water crackers, a 0% Greek yog and two eggs. Having a prawn omelette and salad for tea, with an options hot choc and an early night.

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