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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
WreckTangled · 21/04/2018 07:36

Ds is hitting my thigh saying 'you're fat right here it's all wobbly' Hmm NFD today

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/04/2018 07:46

Welcome apple and we'll done on your first fd homemade

Good luck today with yours purple
tip and mrd that blip will soon be a distant memory Smile

Successful Friday Nfd, hoping for the same today Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/04/2018 07:49

I think you just eat it homemade although I am definitely not in the love it camp Envy

Aww wreck I had the same, DS poking my belly saying "fat, fat, fat" out of the mouths of babes eh!!!

CheshireSplat · 21/04/2018 07:59

Morning all! I feel so full and bloated this morning. We had delicious home made Mexican food last night, including apple salsa, red onion salsa, home made tortillas. I ate mindfully though! I think it might be totm, (on the coil so can't really tell) but boobs are sore too, so hopefully that accounts for the bloating. Stepped on scales and am 10 stone 13.5, so my aim for next 2 days is to stay the same and stay at under 11 stone for Monday. So, off to do a parkrun this morning.

Oh, 43, apologies, my TDEE is 1600 not 1400. Not sure where that came from.

applelolly · 21/04/2018 09:12

Morning all. I weighed in today and in my first week of 5:2 I have lost 6lb. Quite shocked at that! I realise it won't stay that much every week, but it's a good start! Now I just need to not fall of the rails this weekend and gain any back! I have got a busy weekend though so that will help.

WreckTangled · 21/04/2018 09:54

Despite all the bread yesterday I still came in at my TDEE, have just put it into MFP and as I was under the devious day I should be ok. This weekend might be a test though!

littleladylawyer · 21/04/2018 09:55

Morning all.

Good luck on the park run cheshire, make sure you drink loads of water in this heat!

Woo well done apple, great start.

My plans for a good nfd yesterday went out the window as we went out for dinner and I ate loads including a pud so well over my measly tdee.

Going to DP's parents for a bbq today so going to avoid alcohol and stick to salad as much as possible to make up for yesterday!

quackingduck222 · 21/04/2018 10:34

Snail - are you very close to your target now? Is it possible your loosing inches? My plateau was each stone on the 12lbs marker. If felt like my body put the brakes on for a couple of weeks then all of a sudden would let me carry on.

No way - congrats on the loss. That’s a good SV

Southeast - that’s a absolutely fantastic NSV. Feeling happy is so important. Hope you have a great weekend.

Frazzled- times can get hard, but turning down treats is such a huge NSV. If you want a treat can you plan something that you fancy? I now plan ahead and have what I fancy instead of treats that are forced on me I find it helps me keep focused rather than accepting other people’s offerings.

Homemade- well done on your FD. You’ve nailed it. How did you find it?

Apple - welcome, well done on also nailing your fast days. I was also a cereal yo-yo dieter too and have settled into the 5:2 way of life. It’s fantastic and if you stick with 5:2 you will never have to repeat that again.
Once you get used to running on FDs it’s honestly fine. I do all my runs fasted now as for me that’s my norm.

Maz - pick a day that you think will suit you best. And have a amazing holiday.

Tip - how are you? Not seen you about recently. You will get that off in no time.

Purple- you can get apps to work that out for you. Would it be worth logging it in your diary? I don’t get proper TOTM due to the coil but yesterday started with a hard tummy at the bottom by the evening I swelled like a balloon. I’ve set my phone to remind me each month so I don’t get alarmed again.

That’s fab your seeing the doc then a personal trainer. At least they can guide you on what to do and you know you will be safe.

Cheshire- ha same as me are you swelled and balloon like? I find it a PITA as it’s not always obvious why I’m resembling a beach ball for a couple of days.

Apple - 6lbs Shock that is bloody fantastic. Big congrats to you.

Good luck to anyone fasting today!

CheshireSplat · 21/04/2018 10:41

Quacking it's weird isn't it? I've also become an absolute lunatic once a month which never happened before...

Apple well, done, that's amazing. I'm sure it'll creep back up as you eat normally until your next FD so don't be disheartened. I tend to be about 3 lbs lighter after my second FD and then hope I've still lost by the end of the 7 days!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 11:14

Homemade Just glug the Marmite down neat form the spoon, as you would cough medicine
If you would like a hot drink, have beef Bovril (it's also only 10 cals)

  • I have it as my FD starter sometimes, as a soup substitute.

Well done on your SV, apple Excellent 1st week.
That will be partly the release of retained water, but that helps your BP.
Keep drinking water to help flush out your system

Reminder to purple , MrD too: drink more water !

The graph on 5:2 weight loss typically looks like a zig-zag, with a sharp drop after FDs, rising slightly the next day

  • this is NOT regain, it's just your empty stomach refilling.

Newbies also note: weight can fluctuate naturally 1-3 lb during the week, as your body digests and then excretes your food; also water is retained and released.
This effect is usually much greater around totm.

Hence I commend that noone panics if there is a blip one week: look at the overall trend over every 2-3 weeks, which should be downwards

OP posts:
snailhunter · 21/04/2018 13:50

Cheers for the support 40, quacking and BCF!

My BMI is 23.9 according to Mosley's calculator (I am 44, 5ft 4" and 9st 13lb) so I am in the healthy range but with not quite as much wiggle room as I'd like. I am down from 10 st 13 in Jan, when I started, which is great. I am also losing inches - started on 33in waist, now down to 28in, 37inch boobs, now 35, 38in hips, down to 37in. When I write it all down, I can see how far I've come, which makes me feel much better!

Ideally I'd love to get down to 9st 6lb, so not much to lose at all. I'm just going to carry on and not worry - the last two weeks have been horrendous in terms of work stress and I have been pretty much at my desk for 12 hours at a stretch, with no opportunity for exercise, though I have managed to stick to good NSV rules - I hardly drink at all anyway. Something weird is also going on with my period which was due a week ago but no sign of it. So lots of reasons for the lack of loss! The important thing is just to stay relaxed and happy with myself, not beat myself up, and remember it's a WOE, not a diet - I have maintained for the last few weeks, and that's fine.

WreckTangled · 21/04/2018 14:05

Eugh. I've binged on crap because I'm in a bad mood. Luckily there isn't much more rubbish in the house Blush if there was I would definitely eat it

TalkinPeece · 21/04/2018 14:32

quacking
I'm OK. I have to work full time at this time of year (public sector year ends) so I don't get to the gym and I don't get to post much and I have some extra stress
but it will pass

PS for all those moaning about flabby bits
I have stretch marks
even when I get my BMI under 21 I have a flabby wobbly tummy
hey ho.
My kids are fab and I just wear high waisted jeans Grin

WreckTangled · 21/04/2018 14:42

I have stretch marks too. I also have diabetic lipohypertrophy which just isn't going away despite not even being on injection therapy for three years. The only way to get rid is liposuction which I can't afford.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 14:44

snail A longtime 5:2er, betsy lost her final 7 lb - to get to about BMI 21.5 - at the rate of 1 lb per month
She was cool with that
So just relax and go with the flow
you'll get to goal and it gives more time for good habits - re snacks, treats & booze - to become ingrained

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 14:47

wreck I have a punchbag.
You could punch a cushion, or air-punch as an HIIT exercise
Rope-skipping works well too, as you have to coordinate or you'll whip your own bum

Plan your meals for tomorrow to be nourishing, because the sugar / carby high from today may make you ravenous tomorrow

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 21/04/2018 15:58

purple I use an app called Clue to track/predict my monthly cycle. I’m surprised by how helpful it’s been.

quackingduck222 · 21/04/2018 16:36

TiP - of course I remember your job now. No wonder your so busy with year end. Hope it calms down for you soon.

Snail - stick with it, it will happen. But you’ve come so far and done so well. Hang in there and I will cross my fingers for your next WI.

RE stretch marks: I would recommend BCFs recommendation of birch oil. It’s a bit pricey but I am seeing a definite improvement on the appearance especially on my stomach they just don’t seem to be as noticeable and I am a bit lapse with using it.

I’m doing my own head in today, my brain just isn’t functioning. Tried a run on the Tredmill and just wasn’t happening just didn’t have the energy. That’s the first time that’s happened. Dropped my phone on it twice so thought that’s it I’m a danger to myself so stopped. Didn’t have hardly any protein yesterday so not sure if that’s got anything to do with it.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/04/2018 20:46

Well done cheshire and apple Smile

Nfd here, didn't eat a thing until 4pm when I had half a cupcake for Bil birthday, was just really busy and not actually hungry. Had take out Italian for dinner and a couple of glasses of wine Grin

quacking hope you have more energy tomorrow

purpleviolet1 · 21/04/2018 21:01

My FD didn't materialise and I'm feeling Very demotivated. Hayfever and feel like I'm fighting off a virus. Ds been unwell as well so it's been a relentless week Sad

Will come back on Monday with a fresh mind and body hopefully

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 21:49

No fasting, just give yourself some TLC until you get better, purple No rush
So drink plenty of water
Boost veg & beans

OP posts:
HLBug · 21/04/2018 21:49

Posting here for accountability tomorrow which WILL be a FD (or at least a damn good Mini). The last 3 days in a row I have eaten much more than TDEE due to work events, travel, celebrations, birthdays and pretty much everything else. Time to reign it back in. Hmph.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 21:51

Duck Sounds like you need a couple of days rest from training
also some nourishing NFDs, where you eat your full TDEE
You'll come back better after a few days break

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 21:54

Writes "bug" on the watchlist
I'm expecting at least one check-in from you tomorrow Wink
Don't worry, we all have busy social times and you sound very focused to get back on track tomorrow

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 22/04/2018 08:01

Right I'm back in my positive mind. Meals planned for the day and the sun is still shining Smile

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