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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
MazDazzle · 19/04/2018 20:51

It certainly sounds like an emotional time for you Darcy. I’d definitely be pouring myself a glass of something cold!

Successful NFD here: skipped breakfast and had a healthy lunch and dinner. With other ‘diets’ I’d have the lowest cal means possible so I could still have snacks, now I try to use all of my calories for meals so I don’t snack!

I’m undecided whether to fast tomorrow or not. On the plus side, I’m busy all day so would hardly notice. Might as well get and many under my belt before we go away. I’ve looked on the calendar and picked a date to fast on my return. Fingers crossed!

Gobblebox · 20/04/2018 00:24

That’s a lot to deal with....Good luck darcy

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 06:02

Stay strong mrd Flowers

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 07:02

Another 1lb off today... so 12 in total.
I still have about 2 stone to lose to get me into the healthy bmi group, seems such a looonnngggg way to go, is there a sustainable way to speed this up or do I just need to focus on the positives and that I am loosing slowly...

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2018 07:02

It's a tough time for you, MrD and you are doing so well to stay focused and nail that FD.

You have moved on from your pathetic ex ( I remember him from when you were on earlier threads)
You are making your own new life as a strong independent woman
Getting your body the way you want is part of that new you.

Sounds good circumstances to have that FD before your hols, Maz
Have you firmly noted the date of your 1st FD back ?

Well done on kicking the snacks habit

That's an overlooked reason why standard calorie controlled diets often don't work:
it's only human to prioritise the allowed calories for snacks - which are often ANTI-nutrients - and the body receives poor nutrition.
That all sets up the body for mineral deficiencies etc and also insulin resistance, which makes longterm weight management more difficult

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 20/04/2018 07:16

Morning all,

Scales showing a 1.5lb loss this morning... however they are higher than yesterday (which we know makes no sense) so I suspect it's one of those weeks where the full loss doesn't show until 2nd day. I'm not bothered as it's all heading in the right direction! Smile

OohMrDarcy · 20/04/2018 07:17

Forgot to say, thanks for the lovely supportive messages all, and well remembered BCF! Yes I'm far better off without him!

quackingduck222 · 20/04/2018 08:00

43 - it’s very tough when your OH eats like that in front of you. I try to take myself off to another room but mines now started taking snacks and sweets up to bed and it’s a PITA.

Cheshire that’s the spirt. Anything can be easily undone with a FD or two.

Tangeld yes that’s fine. Planned treats are definitely better. At least you can decide what you want that way.

Well done on your FD little lady, fennel and 43

No way - that’s a great calorie deficit well done.

Snail - great NSV and time for some clothes shopping

Gobble and BCF I absolutely love fasted exercise. I’ve tried lunch before hand and I hate the sloshy feeling. Empty stomach and caffeine seems to work well for me.
Even yesterday in the heat was fine I just made sure I have lots of water.

Homemade good luck for your first FD today.

Stay strong darcy and look after yourself.

43 - congratulations on the loss. Re speeding it up there are ways. Either a 3rd FD or try a min fast. Or there is the BSD 5:2 mederteranian diet with lower carbs combined with 5:2 or 16:8 combined with 5:2. That’s the most popular on these boards.

Yesterday was a good FD for me I ended up on a deficit of calories from my run. 3.6 lbs off already so that’s half way off from my gain. Must be mindful the next few days and must drink lots as I drank 3L yesterday and I think that went a long way to helping. It seems to as I spend more time in the toilet than shovelling food Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 08:05

thanks quacking I might try and add in a mini-FD next week, i practically eat low carbs now about from the odd family meal in which case i'll just have a small portion

Well done on halving your gain already, wow!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 08:09

I've just worked out that i'm averaging 1.5lb per week, started 8 weeks ago and lost 12lb, so actually, its not that bad, I need to be less impatient Grin and trust in this as a WOL

NSV - I sorted summer wardrobe yesterday and lots of trousers and jeans that didn't fit me now do, I've not gone down a size (I can be in the same size for ages) but they fit nicely without too bulging / discomfort etc

Good luck to any Friday fasters

quackingduck222 · 20/04/2018 08:14

43 - thanks. I have always found if I or anyone has a gain if your sort it ASAP it comes off really quickly.

That’s fantastic that you eat lowcarb. But Mini FDs are a nice bonus to the week.
Fantastic NSV there.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2018 09:39

Well done on your SVs, MrD, 43

43 Is your loss below 1lb per week ?
With 2 stone to go, 1-2 lb is average on standard 5:2.
Even 1lb per week soon mounts up - remember you didn't put on 2 stone in just a few weeks.

Before moving to extra minFDs or FDs - which makes this WOE more of a diet - I recommend examining your NFDs,
because the problem usually lies there

  • Have you mfped for a full week, to check that your NFDs average around TDEE ? Also gives sugar totals.
  • Have you stopped snacking, including at weekends ?
  • Do you keep to NHS alcohol limits ?
  • Do you eat too much junk - even within TDEE: cake, biscuits, sweet, as well as crisps, pizza, takeaways, deepfried food. For weightloss phase, over a week, try to keep the booze+junk total to within 10% of your total calories consumed

You need to get NFDs right, to make them longterm habits, to avoid regain once you reach goal

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2018 09:41

43 I've just seen you average 1.5lb per week, which is good.
So be patient and you'll reach goal Smile
and form good longterm habits so you never have to do this again

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2018 09:42

and that's an encouraging clothes NSV - you are losing inches, hence bodyfat

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 09:48

thanks BCF i think I was just feeling a bit humppff this morning that after having a FD yesterday when the whole world was enjoying food and drink in the sun okay so i know it wasn't but my facebook feed looked like it was and no snacking, going under TDEE to allow for a bit of leeway over the weekend, religiously mfp-ing, not much junk and doing 16:8 / low carb, that I hadn't lost more than 1lb.

But I soon kicked myself up the arse and worked out its a 1.5lb a week loss so i need to be patient. To get to right at the top end of the BMI healthy category though is another 2 stone Sad i can't imagine ever getting to a point where I have some leeway on that, I'd have to be 10 stone something which I haven't been since my early 20s! Shock

Thanks for the advice and encouragement bcf and quacking

Homemadehopeful · 20/04/2018 10:04

First FD here!! Planning (hoping!!!) to last until 1pm for my egg salad lunch then dinner around 6.30pm. Have only had a cup of tea so far today. Feeling a little apprehensive atm if I'm honest!!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2018 10:20

Don't worry, homemade We all fast on this thread and none of us are Superwoman Smile
Do your best and it will be easier in a couple of weeks once you are used to fasting

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 10:28

you'll be fine homemade lots of water to keep you going
Report back and let us know how you got on :)

OohMrDarcy · 20/04/2018 11:09

Drink loads of water homemade, whenever you feel hungry have a glass (plus lots of sipping in between) and you'll make it through fine... good luck!

littleladylawyer · 20/04/2018 11:34

quacking that's great that the gain is on its way out. My DP is the same and not only snacks in front of the tv but also brings bowls of ice cream/popcorn to bed sometimes.

43 glad you're feeling more positive- I know exactly what you mean about seeing other people having treats on a fast day, especially when it's such lovely weather.

MrD sorry you're in that situation, but it sounds like you have a great positive mindset.

Good luck homemade and other Friday fasters!

It's an nfd here. Planning to grab a salad at lunch, have a healthy dinner of homemade chicken kebabs and enjoy a glass of cold white wine this evening! Does anyone have any high st salad recommendations? Some are such a let down.

snailhunter · 20/04/2018 11:34

Bah. Still stuck at 9 stone 13 lbs. I will come join you on the Plateau of Despondency, 40! Four weeks stuck here for me!

BUT - I have lost over a stone since Jan. And am down a dress size. And the week is nearly over, hooray.

CheshireSplat · 20/04/2018 11:48

43, you're doing brilliantly! 12 lbs is so good. Isn't a lb 3500 calories? So losing 1.5 lbs is a deficit of 5250 calories a week!

My TDEE is 1400 so for me 2 X FDs = 1,800 deficit, so 1/2 lb a week.

NoWayNoHow · 20/04/2018 11:48

Morning all! Another glorious day! this better bloody well last, I'm not going back to 7 months of grey

Weclome *homemade& and good luck on your first FD - you'll be great!

darcy sorry it's been a tough couple of days, but congrats on your SV!

snail don't worry about the scales - the shorts are already a HUGE NSV! I'd love to get back into those kinds of clothes.

43 hark you with a SV and an NSV - amazing!

1.75lbs off for me this morning, which I'm really happy with as, psychologically, I just can't imagine losing weight as it hasn't happened for me for so long. 3.5lbs to go until I'm in the 11s again.

Definitely al fresco-ing my way through today and the weekend, but will do it smartly so I don't sabotage next week.

Good luck all Friday FDers!

WreckTangled · 20/04/2018 12:22

Nfd today but haven't had a chance to eat anything yet...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/04/2018 13:19

lawyer snail cheshire and noway - thanks for the support and a kick up the bum I needed Grin I'm feeling much more positive about it all (but maybe that's because I have now eaten lunch!)

you must have very little to lose snail if you have stuck for 4 weeks? Are you a healthy BMI / nearly at goal?

I'd never thought of it like that cheshire, but that is an awful lots less calories i'm eating Shock you must be so disciplined with a TDEE of 1400?

Well done noway on your SV, fab!!!

wrecked think of all those extra calories you'll have for a glass of Wine in the sunshine later Grin

These boards are amazing, thank you all, without this i might have had my head in a large slice of cake by now 'drowning' my sorrows Flowers