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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Pumperthepumper · 08/03/2018 07:20

Weigh-in day for me and I’m just shy of 3lbs off this week 😱 - amazing what difference TOTM makes, isn’t it? So now 1st 2lbs off since beginning of year 👍

Best of luck to everyone today, the sun is finally shining here so me and the babies are off for a lovely walk in the massive puddles left by the snow, smashing.

purpleviolet1 · 08/03/2018 07:27

Count me in cot FD.... will have omelette tonight with a small portion of chicken stir fry tonight.

Wow well done pumper! Grin

purpleviolet1 · 08/03/2018 07:27

*FOR not cot...

yogi47 · 08/03/2018 07:39

Such inspiring stories, I love reading them and it helps with my motivation. 4 weeks in and the FDs are no trouble. Sat in a meeting yesterday with lovely home made cakes but not a crumb passed my lips. BUT FDs completed this week, sensible NFDs - not an ounce lost.... leading up to TOTM anytime soon and I know I read that this has an impact, can someone reassure me that this could be the reason for no loss?

quackingduck222 · 08/03/2018 07:53

Maz - did you have a go at the trampoline park? We went to one a few weeks ago and it was excellent aching for days after.

Good luck on your FD bug, purple & blue

Pumper that’s excellent news

Yogi - yes very likely as you retain water. You should get loss after. Just keep ploughing on and it will be fine.

Pumperthepumper · 08/03/2018 08:06

yogi47 it definitely does, I’ve consistently lost 1-2lbs per week, apart from the lead up to this TOTM where I lost 0.25 of a lb. Its soul destroying but you just have to stick with it. Since the stupid period started I’ve lost nearly 5lbs, probably just water weight. Best of luck!

OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2018 08:12

Morning all

Count me in for the Thursday FD gang. I've got an omelette for lunch and Cajun chicken with veg for dinner... yummy, and can't wait!

slinkyme · 08/03/2018 09:40

Didn't get a chance to post yesterday. FDish completed yesterday. Went slightly over calories as had a small bowl of pasta for dinner. At worst it was a mini FD. Have a busy week and not sure will manage another FD this as we have guests staying with us this week. Plus TOTM so going to take it easy this week.

Good luck to all fasters today.

FarTooFat · 08/03/2018 09:44

BigChocFrenzy - It's only been 5 or 6 days, but I have changed my NFD system to:

  • a lower TDEE (2100, not 2500) - and I have stuck to TDEE minus 10% on 2 days
  • lower carb - I only eat "good" carbs anyway, like brown rice, wholewheat spag, etc - but I've eaten them less and cut down my portion sizes when I do have them
  • less alcohol - I've not quite cut it out completely yet - a G&T or a glass of wine is a bit of a weakness of mine - but I've drunk far less, and less often
  • no snacking - on FDs or NFDs - I think this one could be key
  • went running (!!) once and for a walk twice. I've not managed daily exercise as yet though

It's FD #8 today and I haven't planned my food, so I'm a bit panicky. I have eggs, fish and veg though, so I should be fine. What's on the menu for the other Thursday fasters today?

macnab · 08/03/2018 10:13

Hello and Happy International Women's Day to all the ladies on this thread (and to the men - your day is November 19th Smile )

It's a FD for me today and I'm not as scared of it as I was on Monday. I've a big jug of water with wedges of lemon & lime sitting on my desk and I intend to finish all of it before lunchtime and a refill by the end of the day. Good luck to all others doing a FD today.

Iateallthebread · 08/03/2018 10:13

Argh! Feeling fed up today. Still full of the cold, head is thumping and feeling dizzy. I want to get back on my plan but I’m waiting until I feel better, just wish this cold would do one! Feel like I’m going to lose all my good work. I know that’s not likely as I’ve not been overeating but just a worry.
Good luck to all the Thursday fasters. Hopefully I will be back on plan next week.

macnab · 08/03/2018 10:16

Pumper WOW! That's a great achievement in just 10 weeks Shock

peachypips · 08/03/2018 11:36

Hi all!

FD today so I'm with you also HLBug! I always find the second FD of the week so much easier. Maybe because I know it's then over for four days! Not even thinking about food today. Not even bothered!

I'm having roasted peppers with Greek feta salad for lunch and haven't decided dinner yet.

No snacking rule is the hardest one for me still. Argh

Maz- I like the idea of your butternut sq recipe- do you have the full recipe I could have?

purpleviolet1 · 08/03/2018 12:08

Late hope you feel better soon Thanks

Slinky damage limitation n all that. Could've been worse yesterday. Don't beat yourself up and focus on healthy nfd's this week

Macnab you've inspired me to add lemon to my water Grin

Had chicken and veg with egg noodles (small portion) for lunch.

Cheese omelette tonight.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/03/2018 13:00

FD here too... so far so good. Well done pumper that is great, and yes TOTM can make you retain water and not drop any weight, but hopefully you will see this next week yogi hope you feel better soon late

Chicken salad for lunch, but not sure yet for tea, I have about 260 cals to play with so will have a think, maybe an omlette?

Good luck all thursday fasters Grin

littleladylawyer · 08/03/2018 13:47

Good luck to all the Thursday fasters!

Work has put on an international women's day lunch and it's a buffet of sandwiches and cakes/treats. I brought in a protein wrap for lunch so have had that and I'm now full and not tempted. Big difference to Tuesday! Clearly the key for me is to make sure I've eaten nice filling healthy food before being exposed to junk!

southeastlondonmum · 08/03/2018 14:02

Well done Pumper that is great! I'm on my second FD of week. Aiming for about 550 calories as finished at 430 Monday and then had a cracking headache

macnab · 08/03/2018 15:53

TMI Alert
This is only my 2nd FD so I'm just getting used to it. I've had nothing at all to eat, I had a coffee first and and I've drank lots of water (something I never do) which has wedges of lemon & lime in it. I had a 72 cal cup-a-soup at lunchtime. I feel fine as in I don't feel hungry and no headache but the last hour or so I've had awful cramps and my tummy is really bloated Sad I am occasionally getting a sharp pain in my back passage too. I've no idea what could be causing it, as I've not had anything at all to eat. Could it be the cup-a-soup?? It's a Knorr Broccoli & Cauliflower one if that makes any difference.

TalkinPeace · 08/03/2018 15:59

macnab
No definite thoughts but it is possibly your digestive tract swearing at the new rules you have given it Grin
Go for a 20 minute brisk walk in the sunshine - get your ab and leg muscles moving and the blood flowing
chances are that will get everything settling IYWIM

Otherwise, a small hot drink - like a cup of warm squash or miso to settle things a bit.
You may have drunk more water than your body is happy with for now.

macnab · 08/03/2018 16:01

Thanks Talkin I've been sat at my desk most of the day, but will be running after my kids shortly so that will hopefully help.

TalkinPeace · 08/03/2018 16:01

On a completely different note, I've been chatting with Anglaise on Facebook.
She was one of the original 5:2 gang and now stays lean with lots of running.
She lives in rural France and recently came to visit folks in England.
Things that shocked her

  • SNACKING
  • PORTION SIZES
  • people eating as they walk along / all the time
In France people have three meals a day with small portions of a couple of courses. Not the massive plates of carbs and processed stuff we get here and NO SNACKING
OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2018 17:49

Kitchen closed on about 520. Am really pleased I'm eating earlier at the moment as not even thinking about my food until the DC were in bed was a bad habit I'd got into, and of course I was then knackered so often ordered a take away. As long as I keep up eating earlier it is an easy way to help break the take away habit too.

First weigh in tomorrow.... eeeek!

quackingduck222 · 08/03/2018 17:51

TiP wholehearted agree with your post. We seen to have become a nation of fast food (on the go foods) and massive portions.

I still find my portions are large but 1/2 my plate is filled with low calorie veg where as before it would be 1/2 full with carbs. Or if I’m having something higher in calories I would have a smaller portion.

I have however been brought up to eat what’s on my plate and that is what I still do. When eating out we now try to eat at places that do smaller portions / OAP menu as it’s that mental battle otherwise.

quackingduck222 · 08/03/2018 17:53

Darcy good luck for your weigh in.

If you enjoy a takeaway have you considered trying to make your own home made version?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2018 18:31

Congrats on you SV, pumper

I hope that nasty cold goes soon, bread
Drink lots of water
To support your immune system, cut out sugary treats & alcohol and boost veg

TIP Very true observation from Anglaise about snacks & junk portion size
Our WOL does it differently Smile

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