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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 22/03/2018 10:02

Morning all,

Checking in for my FD here. Am glugging away already.

Well done to yogi and pumper on the SVs, purple on the milestone and pumper on the clothes size NSV!

GrannyPenny · 22/03/2018 10:03

Well done in getting into the 9s Purple - it's a great psychological boost as well.

Yogi that's a great loss this week and Pumper - I'd take your 'only 0.5lb down' any week as my scales are being very stubborn.

Thanks for the suggestion of Quiz Quacking - never heard of them before either. Just looked on line and their dresses seem ridiculously cheap, although that surprise was secondary to looking at the 'mother of the bride' models who all look to be in their 20s with figures to match.

Littlelady I never go clothes shopping with my DH any more - nice and OK would constitute gushing compliments.

Goals for today. Relaxing gym stretch class; no snacking.

quackingduck222 · 22/03/2018 10:26

Granny / lady - yeah the quiz dresses are pretty reasonable at usually user £40.

As a vertically challenged person myself the short A line dresses are under the knee on me.

Very good value especially if you won’t be that size for much longer.

Also if you do a search on eBay for ex quiz dresses you can find some bargains. Brand new dresses with tags but last years stock for cheap. Got one last year for about £15 and it was heavily embellished and had good coverage to hide my ample bussom Grin

HLBug · 22/03/2018 10:39

Morning all Smile I've got a cheeky day off work today, woohoo! Will be going for a Mini FD and just about to leave now for a BodyStep class at the gym.

Good luck to anyone else fasting today and congratulations on the SVs! purple I cant believe you're down to 9st, bloody well done. It doesn't seem that long ago you started on here at about 10st 3lbs (if i recall correctly?) and I remember thinking "wow, that's my goal weight and she still want to loose?" Amazing how our goals can change when we finally get to them! I weighed in this morning at 9st 5.5lbs so, despite no FDs since last Wednesday, the scales are still moving in the right direction. Maybe that tummy bug was good for something after all!

NoWayNoHow · 22/03/2018 11:08

Morning all
pumper well done on clothes AND loss - amazing!
yogi sorry about family stuf, but glad you've had a SV this week.
BlueBell attempted robbery?!! All a bit too exciting!

Checking in for FD - my first post-TOTM. Weighing tomorrow morning, but I'm not hopeful... Sad Still feel really bulge-y and uncomfortable in my clothes, and will be desperate if I have another static week tomorrow morning or, even worse, a gain...

Am drinking tonnes of water in an effort to flush out anything and everything before tomorrow!!

NoWayNoHow · 22/03/2018 11:13

HLBug just saw your SV too! Amazing! I DREAM of anything sub 10st, but need to get to sub 12st first...

I sat very comfortably at 10st - 10st3lbs for years post Weight Watchers - were you on that thread HLBug as HLB? With Blondes and others? Easily 8 years ago!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2018 11:28

Lots of success stories again.
Good luck to the Thursday fasters and keep 'em rolling Smile

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 22/03/2018 12:50

FD postponed. Went for a walk and stopped for coffee (which led to a scone, sandwich and portion of triffle!). Looked on the calendar and it’s day 25 of my 28 day cycle, so could be that. The drinks I had last night certainly haven’t helped. Normally this would mean I derail, disappear from the thread and return after I’ve gained half a stone! But this time I will be back tomorrow for a successful FD.

I hope all of the other Thursday fasters are having more success than me today!

NoWayNoHow · 22/03/2018 12:53

MazDazzle it's really good that you can recognise today for what it is, write it off and move on tomorrow again. This WOL really does stop derailments from happening as often I think

Have a horrible FD headache post-350cal lunch, despite having had 1.5 litres water. A more difficult day than others today for some reason.

Hope others getting on ok with FDs!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/03/2018 12:56

Wow blue let's hope tonight's meal is less eventful! Well to yogi purple pumper and those I've forgot on your svs and nsvs Grin

FD today and I'm out and about so just grabbed a salad from pret. Probably a mushroom omlette later oh and loads of water. I'm pmt so craving a big bowl of pasta with garlic bread and shitloads of cheese and wine to wash it all down

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/03/2018 12:59

Well done maz for carrying on, I'm having the same hormonal cravings, it's bloody tough going! Good luck for weigh in no

OohMrDarcy · 22/03/2018 13:58

Afternoon all,

all still going well here, maz - great NSV there. You've recognised your trigger, not disappeared and keeping going!

Pumperthepumper · 22/03/2018 14:12

littleladylawyer how petite are you? I’m 5’1 and ASOS has the best range I think. It’s a pain to not be able to try it on I know, but so few places have petite now, it’s so annoying to have to trail around the shops looking for it Angry

Pumperthepumper · 22/03/2018 14:16

HLBug Brilliant! I’m also hoping to be sub-10 in the not too distant future, you’ll spur me on!

Maz good plan, I think. FDs are so much harder when you’re not in the right mindset. And I think the flexibility of always being able to crack on again tomorrow is the absolute beauty of 5:2. I bet it’s easier tomorrow, you’ll sail through it 👍👍

HLBug · 22/03/2018 15:23

Ah no, not me noway - must've been someone else with a penchant for beetlesSmile

snailhunter · 22/03/2018 16:00

Not to worry maz, tomorrow is another day!

I'm doing fine on my FD today. DH is making lovely pinto bean chilli for supper which I shall just have without the wrap.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/03/2018 16:31

Arghhh.... it was so hard resisting lovely homemade cakes at the event I've been at all afternoon Sad but I did Halo just a 1.5hour train journey home now before I can make a fd dinner. I must resist all food available to me when I connect at Manchester! Wish me luck....

Hope all other Thursday fasters are doing well...

littleladylawyer · 22/03/2018 16:44

pumper I'm 5'1 same as you. ASOS petit range has worked well in the past, the trouble is I am terrible at seeing how something would look on me from pictures iyswim, so then I order lots to try on and almost always forget to send the rubbish back in time for a refund! I blame the gorgeous models they use who would make a bin bag look fab!

Well done to those powering through a fd- not long to go now!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2018 17:03

Stay strong, 43 you've done so well today and not long until FD supper.

We'll see you tomorrow, maz same time, same place Smile

Reminder to all:
especially important to keep within NHS alcohol guidelines the day before an FD - it is pretty hard to fast when you wake up with a sore / thick head and no energy .

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/03/2018 19:42

Thanks bcf I hung in there and just closedo kitchen on about 512cals Smile not sure weigh in will bring any sv tomorrow as so close to totm but will jump on anyway. Good luck Thursday fasters, really not long to go now

snailhunter · 22/03/2018 20:01

Kitchen closed at 470. A good FD: hardly thought about food at all. Now looking forward to ginger tea and sofa.

purpleviolet1 · 22/03/2018 20:12

Thanks all!

Hlbug you are right. I started at 10 st 3lbs on nov 1st. Now I'm 9 stone. Glad you have exceeded your goal and your following me closely. You may even over take!

TOTM approaching and we have a family wedding coming up with a few events so I am going to try and do damage limitation by eating only at the event on those days. Hopefully at the least I will sts! It'll all be over 1 April and I'll be back on the fd train.

Today's fd went down the drain. Had a mini fish and chips at Morrison's which should be 398 cals but I think they gave me extra chips and peas. I've now just had a naughty takeaway. Tomorrow we are taking dm for a late Mother's Day meal. Will try to stick to that one meal only.

Well done to everyone fasting - almost over now!

OohMrDarcy · 22/03/2018 20:12

Kitchen closed on 462, and even turned thè DC down on the biscuits they repeatedly offered with my cuppa!

Taking DS bowling tomorrow and eating there whilst DD is at a birthday party. Planning to have my main meal at lunch, and just a portion of chips for dinner so I can keep balance, as it is a typical burger type place.

quackingduck222 · 22/03/2018 20:16

I’m doing 2 x 800 FDs this week as I’m having a roast tomorrow and I always gain 2lbs from them. And eating out on Sunday.

Actually had a very good FD today. Running round like a blue assed fly really helps.

Well done snail and 43, fantastic job.

Maz - ooohhh scone, yum not had one in years (as I’m always on a damn diet) so jealous.

BCF - thick head Grin that made me laugh!

quackingduck222 · 22/03/2018 20:32

Has anyone heard of Jason Fung? Looking for a new book as read the 5:2 one a couple of times and keep coming across Jason Fung.

Does he have anything to do with fasting or am I getting him confused with Vardy??