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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
permanentlyfrazzled1 · 21/03/2018 20:54

I like the sound of that Asian salad as well, thanks for sharing.
Size 12...wow!!!! Amazing 😊
I need to get my birch oil ordered. BCF do I buy any old body brush or can you recommend a particular one please?
I've always fancied a jumpsuit but never found one with a low enough crotch due to being nearly 5ft9", plus after my 4 big babies (note how it's always my mum or my babies to blame for every thing in my life 😃) when I need the loo, I REALLY need the loo so can imagine myself getting into a bit of a pickle not being able to get the jumpsuit down in time. Added to my previous post about face mask (accomplished this) and moustache bleach (didn't accomplish this so still look like a teenage boy!) I've realised I'm not painting a v positive self portrait!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 21:04

frazzled I've never body-brushed, but I'd expect any body brush from Boots, Amazon or a cosmetics counter would be fine
(don't use a brush intended for another purpose- might be too hard, wrong size, or whatever)

OP posts:
slinkyme · 21/03/2018 21:08

That Asian salad does sound yummy. Will plan on making that one day.

Thanks BCF. Tomorrow is a good day for a FD as working from home with not too many meetings just lots of spreadsheet work. Will
Help to keep me occupied. I have been fasting on last few Fridays and have to say by the evening find it really difficult as I think I have years of programming that Fridays are the start of the weekend and so equate to yummy food with the family. I think I should be fine tomorrow and then will have 3 NFDs.

Jumpsuits I imagine will always look short and dumpy on me and I always expect for it to suit tall people. Once I lose sufficient enough weight I plan on a bit of a shopping spree to update the wardrobe and who knows may try a summer jumpsuit.

quackingduck222 · 21/03/2018 21:08

Frazzled - I bought quite a cheap body brush on eBay. Turns out it was from China but it was about £3 and I’m loving it. My skin after just a few goes feels so soft.

Birch oil on Amazon the 200ml one was £25 non prime snail mail. Seemed good value as a few shops like holland and Barratt were £20 for 100ml.

quackingduck222 · 21/03/2018 21:11

Nope it was £4.00 Il add the link. Seems to be the same make as the one I was looking at on amazon that was recommended on a dry body brushing thread in S&B

m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydrea-Professional-Dry-Skin-Body-Brush-with-Cactus-Bristles-Hard-Strength-RK-/201927143036?txnId=1641801275010

permanentlyfrazzled1 · 21/03/2018 21:22

Thanks Quacking - will take a look later.
Incase anyone interested, today's menu (800 cal) was cinammon porridge, mushroom omelette, steak and mushroom goulash with steamed greens. Feeling full, but the desire to snack in front of the TV is still there - bad habits die hard eh! Must focus on those new summer clothes!
Good luck tomorrow Slinky!

yogi47 · 21/03/2018 22:03

Thanks bcf.... of course that makes perfect sense!! Hold out til lunch, enjoy the buffet (sensibly), soup for tea. I can do that! Looking for a SV now tomorrow or Friday! Good luck everyone tomorrow... loving the fact we are all coveting a new summer wardrobe!

purpleviolet1 · 21/03/2018 22:18

Thanks BCF that looks helpful. Since you never mentioned dry brushing I'm guessing it's not a good idea to do on my overhang? I'll purchase the birch oil now.

Thanks all love this thread! I've not been 9 stone since 2014 so I'm really pleased I've got to this stageGrin

Will check in tomorrow for FD.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 23:04

No, don't brush the overhang, purple
At least not unless you get down to the last bit and it turns out to be loose skin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 23:10

Well done on the 9 stone milestone, purple. and for lowest since 2014

Targets are according to the individual body & lifestyle; once you're around healthy BMI, it's more about the tape measure & being happy in your skin.

OP posts:
slinkyme · 21/03/2018 23:36

Well done purple on your milestone. You have done superbly well.

GrannyPenny · 22/03/2018 00:00

Just waiting for midnight and I can book my gym class before bedtime.

FD came in at 570 cals, so room for improvement but not too bad.

Night all.

purpleviolet1 · 22/03/2018 07:04

Thanks BCF and slinky.

FD here today but feeling very tired so not sure I'll manage. May swap to Sunday if it gets too much. Need to prioritise sleep.

yogi47 · 22/03/2018 07:21

Flying visit - SV 1lb4 off this week! Mini FD today so may even see more tomorrow? Well done purple and good luck everyone today...

Pumperthepumper · 22/03/2018 07:33

Excellent yogi and purple! Smashing work Flowers

I’m only 0.5lbs down this week but I had big losses last week and the week before so I think this is just a balance of that. And not had great NFDs a couple of times so I’ll take it.

Hope everyone has a great day! I’m running errands and getting my hair cut so a very, very exciting day here. Might go totally wild and hoover! Probably not though.

quackingduck222 · 22/03/2018 08:18

Well done Pumper. A loss is still a loss but sometimes best to look at the overall loss as it does very from week to week. Your doing fantastic.

Yogi well done on your SV.

Sending positive thoughts to purple. That’s the beauty of this WOL it’s so flexible.

I’m doing a 800 cal FD today, blips ironed out this week as I didn’t buy any crap so I can’t eat it and having set out what meals we were having over the week has really helped.

Just looking at keeping in good habits now.

littleladylawyer · 22/03/2018 08:26

Well done yogi and pumper.

Good luck to those fasting today, hope the hours whiz by for you. I'm making it my mission to eat as much veg as possible on nfds, so hoping to try out some new recipes over the weekend- any recommendations gratefully received!

Slightly off topic but can anyone recommend some shops to look in for a dress for a wedding in a few weeks? I find places like Ted Baker/ Karen Millen/ Reiss/ Whistles are too long for me and cba to have anything altered.

purpleviolet1 · 22/03/2018 08:28

Finding your posts really helpful quacking. Such good advice for everyone!

quackingduck222 · 22/03/2018 08:30

Lady are you under 5ft 3? I have noticed lately a lot of the shops have petite sections now.

Do you have a Debenhams or HoF locally? I find them handy for different brands all under one roof.
My default wedding dress shop used to be quiz as I like a bit of bling.

BlueBelle123 · 22/03/2018 08:36

Well done yogi, purple and Pumper on your SV!!

Off out for another meal today, hopefully it will be better than my Greek experience........ we were the only people in the restaurant and then outside an attempted robery at the local betting shop was taking place, police soon arrived it certainly was eventful!!

purpleviolet1 · 22/03/2018 08:37

Thanks bluebell. That's nuts! Whereabouts were you??

littleladylawyer · 22/03/2018 09:18

quacking I'm 5'1- might have to bite the bullet and head to Westfield or somewhere- I hate clothes shopping with a passion! Maybe I can persuade DP to come to Selfridges- I find the champagne bar makes it much more bearable! I've not heard of quiz so will check it out.

blue that sounds rubbish, hope today's meal out is better!

MazDazzle · 22/03/2018 09:29

Sounds like an eventful night Bluebell Shock

Wow purple. Well done you! I’m tired today too and not looking forward to fasting, but it’s my own doing...

Last night I had a couple of glasses of cava topped with rhubarb and ginger gin. Felt fine last night and drank plenty of water before bed, but woke with a splitting headache. This is going to be a tough FD. I’d rather get it over and done with though.

Your steak and mushroom goulash sounds lovely frazzled.

Well done on your SV yogi and you too pumper*. You’ve done well to lose anything after 2 weeks of big losses. Every little helps!

BlueBelle123 · 22/03/2018 09:55

Purple it felt like we were in a very low budget soap Grin

maz hope today goes well I know how difficult FD and headaches can be!

I have been actively drinking more water, actually keeping a tally and making sure I drink 7 glasses, so far no headaches, fingers crossed this continues.

snailhunter · 22/03/2018 09:59

Checking in for FD today! Coffee with friend in a bit, will stick to the herbal tea.

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