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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 20/03/2018 16:55

Purple - recommend this YouTube video.
Especially the Pilates toe taps nearer the end. BCF put me onto them last year. And have found it very good and hits right across that middle section.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=1919eTCoESo

yogi47 · 20/03/2018 16:57

I'm off to an Italian restaurant tonight.... it's a NFD but want to be careful. Any thoughts on what should I eat (other then salad - had a Greek salad and Pitta for lunch). I'll be driving so no alcohol but would like something nice to eat and enjoy it without feeling guilty. Any suggestions?

quackingduck222 · 20/03/2018 16:58

Well done Granny, you must be feeling the burn after that.

Dry body brushing - I’m suffering with loose skin on my inner thighs so BCF recommended that and birch oil.

Only been doing the dry body brushing a few days but my skin feels so soft already and it doesn’t take long.
The first time I did it it made a huge mess with skin flying everywhere Blush

quackingduck222 · 20/03/2018 17:01

Yogi - how about something in a tomato sauce? I’m not good on Italian cuisine but would be less calorific than a cheese / cream based dish?

TalkinPeece · 20/03/2018 17:06

yogi
Antipasto to start : tangy tasty sliced meats and olives and peppers

For main course something like a chicken dish or one of the tangier pasta dishes - arribiata or similar
NOT carbonara :-)

yogi47 · 20/03/2018 17:18

Thanks talkin and quacking - definitely prefer tomato based anyway so maybe a seafoody type pasta.... looking forward to it and currently resisting putting my hand in the biscuit tin with 3 hours to go...! No snacks allowed! Grin

BlueBelle123 · 20/03/2018 17:24

I'm another one out eating tonight.....it will be all Greek for me!! Managed to go all day without eating so hoping to stay within TDEE.

Loving reading all your posts....keep it up!!

TalkinPeece · 20/03/2018 17:25

Whereas I'm cooking a sri lankan pork curry for us tonight .... tangy so that I do not eat too much

BlueBelle123 · 20/03/2018 17:34

TIP.....phew I thought you were going to tell me what I should be ordering off the menu as I would then feel really guilty if I didn't do as I was told Blush

Iamblossom · 20/03/2018 17:47

Evening all. Was doing extremely well on my b2b and then tried to run 5km. Had absolutely nothing in the tank and walked the last 1km. Got in and wolfed a banana and some crackers.

Oh well, will still be well under tdee.

purpleviolet1 · 20/03/2018 18:00

Thanks all - yes maz I've had a c section. I'll try that video quacking!

Iamblossom · 20/03/2018 18:01

That video is good I have done it lots

OohMrDarcy · 20/03/2018 18:06

Evening all,

Today is looking like a goal-TDEE kinda day, which is a good feeling as haven't felt 'starved' at all. Got a jacket potato in the oven now for dinner.

blossom, kudos for attempting a 5k on a b2b!

My... package has arrived and I'm not opening it.... yet

Iamblossom · 20/03/2018 19:00

Thanks mrD think it was a bit daft on reflection tbh. Have always exercised on a "normal" fd with no adverse affects but was literally running on empty.

littleladylawyer · 20/03/2018 19:47

Enjoy your meals out yogi and blue, I absolutely love Greek food and am very jealous!

lamb sounds like you just ran out of fuel, i can't manage exercise on a fd let alone a b2b!

Had a good nfd today, got a beef casserole in the oven for dinner. Anyone else planning a fd tomorrow? I'm working from home which I always find more challenging.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/03/2018 19:59

yogi I ate out at an Italian on Friday and opted for pasta with prawns and tuna in a tomato sauce, it had a couple of chilli's in it and was delicious, not too rich. Enjoy!

Mmmmm blue i love Greek good Envy

iamb I could even imagine getting through a b2b never mind trying to bloody run 5k Shock

Ooh how exciting mrdarcy you must be sitting on your hands!

TalkinPeece · 20/03/2018 20:13

Greek Food is easy : grilled meat and stacks of veg and beans
Mezze is a doddle so long as you avoid fried stuff

quackingduck222 · 20/03/2018 20:42

Fair play blossom for attempting it on a B2B. I find I’m alright doing a faster run but can’t do it a day after a FD fasted. It’s as you said running on empty. But on the flip slide I don’t like it sloshing about after lunch.

Darcy - can’t believe you’ve not opened it yet. Is it not calling to you?

Tips back yeay. How’s things going mrs lovely long sunkissed bronze legs? Still jealous. Wink

MazDazzle · 21/03/2018 07:55

You’ve more willpower than I have Darcy. How have you managed to resist not ripping it open as soon is it arrived?

Well done on the work out! It takes determination to keep going after the end of one level.

Yogi, Bluebell, I hoped you enjoyed your meals yesterday. What did you order?

Only 9lb to goal weight now. After all my moaning the scales are dropping every day. Managed to save 300 cals yesterday. NFD today. I have a 30 min. HIIT class just after lunch time, so I’ll wait until after that before I eat.

Planning on a FD tomorrow. Anyone else joining me?

purpleviolet1 · 21/03/2018 08:27

Maz I'm in for tomorrow Grin

OohMrDarcy · 21/03/2018 09:04

Morning all

so... confession time.... I was desperate, so I went on my paypal and just eat sites and just about managed to prove I'd had a month without takeaways..... said gadget is now on my wrist.... Blush Grin

I clearly have zero self control.

Anyhoo..... FD tomorrow all meals planned up until then.

Iamblossom · 21/03/2018 09:09

morning all, Please stop congratulating me on a b2b, ended up on 1450 yesterday, so only "fasted" Monday but am intending to try and be under tdee until the weekend at least. And was happy with weight yesterday.

Good luck all fasters! x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/03/2018 09:23

morning everyone, had an eat to full TDEE kind of a day yesterday, was so hungry, but managed not to go over and I didn't snack, so it was just meals... NFD today but trying to hold off until lunch if I can

Ooh enjoy your new gadget MrD
Wow Maz not far to go now, how exciting...

Hope all fasters have a good day, its a beautiful spring day here today Smile

quackingduck222 · 21/03/2018 09:27

Well done Darcy on you NSV that’s fantastic.

Also you may as well enjoy it and get the use out of it.

permanentlyfrazzled1 · 21/03/2018 09:34

Signing in for FD today. Had an appalling weekend with relatives visiting, who are not only difficult people to be around, which drove me to the cake tin, but forced me to make copious amounts of unhealthy puds in the first place, cus they only eat processed and sweet food 😲 My terrible weekend was cemented by stepping on the scales Monday to find I've put 2 lbs on! I have however lost an inch from bust and hips so trying to focus on that rather than the weight. I'm hoping to lose that excess this week, and have started back with 30 minutes of 'Fitness Coach' everyday.
Haven't been able to catch up on whole thread, but have seen your pic Purple - I have the same overhang, but I also have another one below it which I have to tuck in my knickers 😂 I have some fat in there to lose, but much of it is stretched skin after 4 substantial babies and not having eaten sensibly during the pregnancies. Will birch oil still be a good purchase?
Good luck today everyone - let's compare notes this evening. 👍