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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
snailhunter · 19/03/2018 19:07

Kitchen closed at 547. Slightly over due to deliciousness of roast cod.

FannyDaggers · 19/03/2018 19:14

Checking in on my fd closing at 587, thanks Maz for giving me the idea of pomegranate seeds, just what I needed to end the day on! Well done on all the SV’s and NSV’s, watch sounds great “fortythree” and congrats on the flat BCF

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 19:26

quacking conquacks on your NSV exercise victory!! (See what I did there? I may be slightly delirious Grin)

Kitchen closed on 680.

Yes bcf I really think it might. 650 actually allows for enough food not to get completely ravenous and if I stayed at Monday and Wednesday I was finding the Wednesday one just never happened!

purpleviolet1 · 19/03/2018 19:29

Struggling with fd - not hunger but a mix of tiredness/ lots going on in my head and so want to comfort eat. I've just had a counselling session and got home and straight into bed. Very very tempted to order a takeaway

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 19:29

My NSV is no booze...Star

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 19:30

Nooo purple!!! Go to sleep?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 19:33

How about a nice cup of tea and a hot bubble bath purple be kind to yourself but also don't cave as you are so close to finishing it Flowers

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 19:36

Well done everyone fasting today snail, fanny, max whoever else I can't remember, sorry we did it!
Kitchen closed at 521, today was harder but only because it's so sodding cold!

Well done quacking on your exercise nsv Grin

purpleviolet1 · 19/03/2018 19:36

Thanks ladies. Think I'll put tv on and try and wind down. Early night x

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2018 19:57

Well done, Monday fasters

Enjoy an early night, purple
but in the hour before you intend to sleep, avoid TV, iPad and other electronic gadgets,
because the blue light disrupts melatonin production and can make it difficult to sleep

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 19/03/2018 20:03

You can do it purple- you've made it all the way til now, just hold on for tomorrow.

Kitchen closed at 380 here, had my veg bake with extra peas and broc and feel nicely full now. I've finally thawed out too!

Well done Monday fasters, great start to the week. I've got a craving for a really crisp skinned jacket potato with cheese and beans at the moment, might have it as my Friday night supper snuggled on the sofa

caffeinated · 19/03/2018 20:49

I just baked chocolate chip cookies with the kids on the second day of my b2b. Literally a miserable experience but I didn’t succumb, I calculated each one was 200 cals and backed away. I might take one in my lunch tomorrow.

BlueBelle123 · 19/03/2018 20:50

Purple back away from the phone its nearly Tuesday.

MazDazzle · 19/03/2018 20:54

All going well BC, when do you expect to get moved in?

Well done to everyone who fasted today, especially in this cold weather!

Away to sit down with a glass of diet ginger beer. Looking forward to lots of delicious food tomorrow. All within my TDEE, of course!

Pumperthepumper · 19/03/2018 20:57

Kitchen closed at 490 - funny how some days it’s a doddle and other days (last Wednesday for me) it’s the hardest, hardest thing. Hormones maybe?

Not expecting a great loss this week because I’ve had a couple of terrible NFDs but I’ll be happy to maintain.

Caffeinated that’s hardcore, excellent work!

purple how are you getting on? Hope you’re having a good early night 👍👍

OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2018 21:12

Kitchen closed on 526 and an accidental purchase of a new Garmin HmmGrin

Back from looking after my godsons, and I'm at over 12k steps for today so I'm happy with that level of exercise too!

Purple i hope you are hanging in there, we've all been there... you are so close now!

purpleviolet1 · 19/03/2018 21:12

I've managed to hold off...just craving a cheese burger... in bed now so hopefully doze off shortly. Thanks for asking

OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2018 21:14

Well done purple!

HLBug · 19/03/2018 21:35

Well done Monday fasters, you're nearly done for the day.

43 congratulations on moving into the next BMI bracket - that's a great achievement! Now, onwards to 'healthy' Smile

Darcy I love your logic - enjoy your new watch (and you too snail you trendsetter)

quacking your running really seems to be coming on leaps and bounds! Do you feel like you're enjoying it? The attached photo sums it all up for me Grin Not that I've been running since DD was born Hmm

Hope you're doing ok purple Thanks

BCF do you think I could do a couple of Minis this week? I know the general rule is no fasting after a tummy bug but I feel fine and absolutely back to normal. I think it was just a 24 hour thing - no symptoms since Saturday.

HLBug · 19/03/2018 21:36

Ahh forgot the pic...

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 21:39

Well done purple and enjoy your treat mrdarcy

Off to bed also, 5.30am start Confused

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 21:39

Glad you are feeling better bug

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2018 22:03

Excellen running & HIT NSVs, duck
You are getting fitter all the time; don't forget at lead 1 rest-day per week without any training
Also plan your time to get plenty of sleep - may help your skin too.

bug I suggest a cautious compromise:
wait and do a full 1000 cal miniFD on Wednesday and then if that's OK`, do an FD or mini at the weekend
but all this week, lots of water, no sweet crap & no booze or fizzy crap, no snacks of course, for healthy TLC NFDs
and to avoid irritating your tum, no fruit juice or spicy food

I also suggest avoiding vigorous exercise until the weekend, by take a short daily walk.

I've not fixed the move date yet, Maz and with kitchen, probably be end June before I'm fully settled in to the new flat.
I'll soon start easing my ankle into lovely Rhine walks
I've already found motivation in a lovely family bakery on the Rhine path, which serves light meals, homemade ices and will become my second home

Well done, purple, lawyer, caff, Maz, pumper, MrD, fanny, snail and all the Monday fasters
Let's have an early night

OP posts:
HLBug · 19/03/2018 22:40

Great advice as always BCF, ill do exactly that. Night all.

vivicrocodile · 19/03/2018 22:57

I'd really appreciate some advice please as I am having absolutely no luck with 5:2 at the moment.

I have lost 40lbs so far (half with Weight watchers and half with 5:2)
I am happy with this result but I have around a stone left to lose and I weigh the same now as I did in mid November.

I go up and down the same 3 or 4 pounds throughout the week and it's really getting me down now.

I don't get what is going on. It's the same pattern every week. I just fluctuate between 3 or 4 pounds at different points throughout the week but go no lower.

I am generally strict with my calories on NFDs and I stick to between 500 and 600 on FDs. I have a takeaway each week but this isn't a new thing. My TDEE is around 1950 (I'm quite tall) and I've been eating all/ most of them.

I have measured but there's no massive inch loss to speak of either

What could I try?

Lower calories on NFDs? Add another fast?(I'd rather not do this tbh) Do 16:8 with it? I know I need to add some exercise but even without I'd expect to see some movement on the scales.

I'd really appreciate any help.

Thanks. :)