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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
purpleviolet1 · 19/03/2018 12:40

Just had my 1 weetobix now. Wish I bought some mushrooms now for my omelette tonight!

OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2018 13:46

Just been looking on amazon at the Garmin 235.... looks AMAZING... and making me hate my old FR15! Just casually wondering if its worth buying myself one as its on a very good deal at the moment.... Hmm

snailhunter · 19/03/2018 13:58

Congrats on your loss fartoo, that's brilliant. Small steps, one day at a time. Don't think about the big goal - break it down into lots of little ones.

Nice to see some fellow Garmin geeks! Granny I held out with my old one for ages as I hate buy new tech just for the sake of it but the new one is so lovely and comfy and I don't have to wear the stupid heart rate chest strap which I've always loathed. mrdarcy I cannot possibly advise you. You must listen to your heart. And your bank balance.

quackingduck222 · 19/03/2018 14:48

Good luck to all the fasters today.

Fartoo - well done on your loss this week. And well done on your no snacking that’s a very good NSV.

Blue - do you only weigh yourself once a week? Crossing my fingers for you in hope that you can loose your lb to get to your next goal.

Found myself staring to slip back into old habits last week. Been shopping and bought lots of nice meats and fresh veg to get myself back into good habits. Started to chill out about weight now but want to remain in good habits.

quackingduck222 · 19/03/2018 14:48

How did your flat hunting go BCF?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2018 15:06

That's good, duck Healthy habits are what enable lifetime weight management
Oh and I'm awaiting EM confirmation that I have the Rhine flat, duck so I'm already planning the new kitchen Smile

Snail No chest strap is a massive advantage for your new gizmo

MrD, granny That's a great non-food reward that would motivate you to build healthy exercise habits
But of course only as long as it doesn't mean an unhealthy bank balance

purple Any other veg in the house that you could have with your omelette ?
Even a salad dressed with lemon goes well

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 15:12

half way through FD and had soup with some chicken and 2 satsumas for lunch, probably an omlette for dinner. NSV for me, I am now officially overweight and not obese any more Smile but only just scraped through threshold at 29.6.... but its in the right direction!!

Hope everyone else is doing well on their FD, wish it wasn't so bloody cold though

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 15:13

congrats on the flat BCF

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 15:35

Congrats on flat bcf

quackingduck222 · 19/03/2018 15:38

That’s fantastic news BCF. It’s nice and close to your gym isn’t it.

littleladylawyer · 19/03/2018 15:46

Exciting flat news BCF, I would love to design a new kitchen in our house but sadly the bathroom needs to take priority- for some unknown reason the previous owners thought a totally see through glass door was a good choice!

Well done 43, that's amazing news!

I'm absolutely freezing and people have the windows open at work, grrr. Can't wait for dinner, I've got a ready meal veg bake thing which should be warm and filling. Then a hot bath and an early night I think! Hope everyone's fds are going well

MazDazzle · 19/03/2018 15:47

There’s been two bars of Dairy Milk in my fridge for a week now and I haven’t even been tempted to open them! Usually, they wouldn’t last the hour. For the whole of last week my sugary treats consisted of a small slice of apple pie, a stroopwaffle and 5 squares of dark chocolate. I could easily eat that on an average NFD (before lunch Blush), so I’m delighted.

Bought a bar of 90% dark chocolate today in Tesco. Have previously only tried as high as 81%. Prior to DC3 I got my sugar cravings under control, but they’ve reared their ugly head again.

FD here today. Did an hour of weight training this morning. Looking forward to salmon with a huge salad for dinner.

Happy fasting Monday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2018 16:17

Afternoon all, FD going well today though I'm bloody freezing so might have a cuppa soon.

I'm still seriously considering the new Garmin... In an ideal world I would wait until I'm paid on Friday to buy it - but it will be twice the price then... and only a few days.... hummmm decisions decisions! Been looking at smart watches for ages too so its a nice combo for an IT geek like myself (its my job)

43 - FANTASTIC SV! Oh to be overweight! I currently have a very high BMI but its creeping down nicely already.... I'll be shouting from the rooftops with every drop - as you should be Grin

BCF - sounds very good news on the flat, enjoy designing your kitchen!

Quacking, well done spotting the blip and getting straight on top of it!

Dancing has been cancelled tonight due to the now almost non-existent snow... I'm babysitting for my godsons for an hour so I'll walk to their house and back so I get some more exercise still I think.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 16:18

Wow that is some willpower maz
Brrrrr can you not discreetly close the windows lawyer

OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2018 16:20

You know what, bugger it - the money I could spend on this is almost the money I've been spending on bloody late night takeaways before getting back on the 5:2 wagon this month - I'm going to buy it, and not open it until the end of March - that way it is in celebration of an NSV of a month without a takeaway at all!

That feels like a good plan, and a far better use of that money too!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2018 16:23

I know mrdarcy it sounds ridiculous to be happy about being overweight but there you go... hope you get into the next bracket soon Smile

snailhunter · 19/03/2018 16:36

Excellent idea mrdarcy!

quackingduck222 · 19/03/2018 16:53

Darcy - good for you. Go get that watch and enjoy it.

It’s surprising how much you save on this WOL for us on takeaways and also meals out. We have money left each month now.

yogi47 · 19/03/2018 18:34

Good idea MrDarcy - excellent treat for that fab NSV and fab news 43. Just checking in as 380 calories so far today but feeling v hangry so diverting my attention and getting my motivational fix from here. BCF - this is the best and most positive MN thread, thanks!

MazDazzle · 19/03/2018 18:36

I had a Fitbit charge 2, but I didn’t use it so I sold. I liked that it had an inbuilt heart rate monitor, but hated having to take it off to charge it and it was very big and cumbersome.

Well done fortythree. Soon you’ll have to change your username! I started off as obese and was delighted to just be overweight.

Just finished my dinner. Roasted hot smoked salmon with a huge salad: leaves, pickled onions, spring onion, peppers, cucumber, pomegranate and shredded carrot. Yum!

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 18:37

I love my Fitbit blaze.

Iamblossom · 19/03/2018 18:38

I am headed towards my prawn omelette at 7, with a small side salad, and then an options hot choc. So will end on about 680 and planning same again tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2018 18:54

Congrats on your SV milestone, 43 dropping into a lower BMI class is major Grin

Well done on the choc NSV, Maz

Keep posting, yogi Great to hear you find out threads so supportive

Brrr, lawyer Baffling unless your work has a phantom farter
Forget glamour and wear your thermal undies tomorrow

Makes sense to buy the gadget now, if it's significantly cheaper, MrD
Great idea to keep it as your no-takeaway NSV reward for the month

Yes, 5:2 usually leads to lower grocery bills
(but people find they need to buy smaller clothes Grin)

b2b seems to suit you, blossom

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2018 18:58

Thanks for the flat congrats, everyone.

Nice to hear 5:2 also helps your budget, duck
It's fine if our purses get fatter Wink

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 19/03/2018 19:06

Yep, definitely as long as it’s our purses rather than our waists.

I had for me a big NSV today that I ran 4 miles. I’ve also managed to reduce my HIIT at slower speed. I usually do 30 seconds fast 30 seconds slow but the slower portion is reducing.

Super chuffed with myself so decided to sign up for 50mile challenge in April.