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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 18/03/2018 09:20

Maz - your right BSD is hard. Mentally it’s pretty tough going. The losses on it are fantastic and that does outweigh the bad. I decided last time i did it I’d do it again for a week after holiday / Xmas.
Have you got your brush and oil yet?

quackingduck222 · 18/03/2018 09:24

Blue I was just thinking about you, there was another half marathon today in WSM a lot of people entered after the cancelled bath half. It got called off last night. I was thinking I hope Blue didn’t enter.

BlueBelle123 · 18/03/2018 09:38

Quack I may be mad (doing b2b over weekend) but im not stupid Grin...so that's a no!!

GrannyPenny · 18/03/2018 11:01

Thanks for all the birthday wishes everyone.

Had a lovely meal with family - my DIL is an ace cake maker, so limiting myself to one slice was definitely a NSV!

Then early evening, watching an eBay item half the computer screen disappeared with an aural migraine that came on without warning. I've had aural migraines since I was 13, usually linked to TOTM, the frequency of which ebbed away in my 40s and 50s with the odd one here and there, but yesterdays was my third in the past two months. Dr Google doesn't suggest anything particularly sinister but I'm at a loss to think what the trigger could be. I feel slightly tired and washed out today, but fine otherwise.

Blue - never heard of blotchy face after running in the cold! I'm definitely a fair weather jogger now and feel quite sorry for those doing marathon/half marathon training having to get out in all weathers.

Quacking Maz I looked at BSD too wondering whether it could help banish the deposits of fat my body clings relentlessly on to, but realised I lack the discipline for it to be successful.

Goals for today: yoga today has been cancelled and a stretch and relax class put in its place, so I shall go to that; no snacking; drink less coffee and more herb tea.

Hope the thaw comes soon. Happy Sunday all.

MazDazzle · 18/03/2018 11:26

Awesome sounds more doable Bluebell, bit you’re right it would definitely have to be when you’re mentally strong.

My brush and oil arrived a few days ago. Dry brushing feels very bracing, but I’m getting used to it. The oil smells lovely: lemony and minty and reminiscent of a spa treatment. It’s quite pricey though, so we’ll see how long the bottle lasts.

Migraines suck Granny. Mine coincide with totm too, but I can go ages without having one, then it’s every month. Enjoy your stretch and relax class, it sounds lush!

For breakfast this morning I had a blueberry and cinnamon omelette with yogurt and honey. It would have tasted even better if DH had bought full fat yogurt instead of 0% fat. What was he thinking? DD1 said it tasted like glue!

Think we might psyche ourselves up for a walk along the beach today. Wellies and waterproofs at the ready!

MazDazzle · 18/03/2018 11:26

A week sounds more doable!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2018 11:38

Deep snow overnight here on top of ice, so I cancelled the gym.
I'm soooo fed up with this winter
It's time Spring got its arse into gear

Well done on your moderation NSVs, Maz The best habits to learn

Granny I suggest visiting the real doctor, to do some tests and maybe prescribe something
You might have a deficiency or some other change triggering this - and you don't want it to worsen

Well done, Blue You are hard core !

I'm sure you'd never do a half-marathon on an FD, even in perfect weather - but I'll warn against, in case anyone lurking is considering this:

Fasting lowers the glycogen stores that longer runs use for fuel

  • even low carb marathoners usually top up with glucose or some other carby fuel, because the body can't burn enough bodyfat for long enough.

Very long runs on an FD would damage your performance and maybe even your health if you tried to run through the "bonk"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2018 11:40

maz I almost never say "LTB"
but … zero-fat yoghurt ! Shock
It's just nose snot in cartons < shudders >

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/03/2018 11:48

Hello everyone, happy belated birthday granny and we'll done on all the NSVs. I indulged a little too much yesterday although I was probably in tdee, great until about 9pm then a few snacks crept in, I know this is what normally happens the week before totm and theres a reason for it but I'm still annoyed with myself as I've hardly snacked for 3weeks. Anyway, dinner out tonight in gastropub that seems to serve chips with everything Shock so will have to choose wisely or eat some then squirt ketchup over the rest Envy

caffeinated · 18/03/2018 13:02

The snow ruined my evening plans last night and we ended up not dancing the night away so I can’t justify the fact that I was way over TDEE after our meal, though I skipped dessert and have a veggie starter.

First day of B2B today so back in the zone.

Have a good day all and stay safe.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2018 14:11

43 Make sure you eat enough for supper and that it is enjoyable
i.e. don't just choose a plain salad and feel deprived.
Better to have chips with your meal - if you don't much fancy the alternatives - and feel satisfied you had a really good meal out, than snack on several 100s of cals later

Good tactic being the designated driver
but don't spoil it with a drink when you get in - alcohol, lattes etc all count as a snack when not part of a meal

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2018 14:12

Wow, good luck caff

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 18/03/2018 19:41

Quiet here.

I've not drank enough water this weekend and can feel it so I'm about to fill a jug up and drink! No doubt be up all night because of it!

FD tomorrow whose in?

littleladylawyer · 18/03/2018 19:45

Hi all, hope everyone's had a great weekend.

Had a huge roast chicken lunch so just having some veg and humous for supper (and a glass of Wine!)

I'm def in for a fd tomorrow- feel like I need a nice system re-set after a yummy weekend! Going to try to save myself for dinner and have something nice and satisfying

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/03/2018 19:49

Yes fd for me tomorrow... actually looking forward to it Grin

Iamblossom · 18/03/2018 20:09

Hi all. Lovely relaxing weekend. Heaven.

Fd tomorrow so checking in.

Will see what weigh in brings in the morning and will then decide if I am doing a b2b. I can hear you all praying I don't so I don't post a zillion times like last week.

Loads of snow here, sick sick sick of it.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2018 20:14

Post all you want, blossom
This is the only audience that listens to our SVs, NSVs and frustrations, without judgement
Because we've all been there, or know we could be in that situation next week.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 18/03/2018 20:16

Lamb - don’t be silly. If posting keeps you accountable then do it! Whatever it takes to get you through.

Today’s not a FD for me but did go through from 7pm last night until 6:30pm tonight without food. Just consumed my TDEE in one sitting but find it sometimes does me good. Combination of very little food in the house and being busy.
Maybe I should not of ignored the snow warnings and should of done a shop yesterday.

Pumperthepumper · 18/03/2018 20:19

I’m aboard the fast train tomorrow! Definitely been over eating the last few days, need to get a better grip of it this week.

slinkyme · 18/03/2018 20:23

Been all over the place lately. Blew the FD on Friday and it turned into a NFD. Want to
Be able to do a FD but won't be possible as we have an evening event to attend tomorrow. Hoping can do FDs this week given only managed one FD each last two weeks.

slinkyme · 18/03/2018 20:24

Am in awe of all of you B2B fasters. Lamb keep posting - we are all in this together.

caffeinated · 18/03/2018 20:32

Purple I’ll be fasting tomorrow, seems like everyone is.

BlueBelle123 · 18/03/2018 20:40

Yeah B2B finished at 550 it was a lot easier today than yesterday.......I am all blotchey again I think it's my spicy curry that I made, which is a mild disaster as I love it and its really low calories Sad

Looks like lots of you have FD tomorrow, good luck. I don't think I am going to be able to fit a FD in until Sunday, so only one for me next week!!

OohMrDarcy · 18/03/2018 20:51

Evening all,

Had a lovelymday in the snow today with the DC. They have been educated in different snow types (far better for snowmen than earlier in the month), we have built snowmen, had a snow ball fight, a walk to the shop for supplies with sledging thrown in.... and ten a delicious roast dinner to warm us through. Nicely under TDEE for the day, and ready with leftover chicken and veggies for a yummy FD tomorrow.

Blossom... Keep posting, you know it works! I find it really useful for me too.

purpleviolet1 · 18/03/2018 21:24

Lots of us fasting Grin hoping to get under the 9 stone mark when I weigh in on Friday morn.

Blossom keep posting, love reading all the updates