Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
GrannyPenny · 15/03/2018 23:57

Waiting for midnight so I can book gym class(es). Am trying zumba for the first time tomorrow - should be interesting as I have no rhythm and two left feet but it looks like fun. Maybe it'll cheer me up.

NSV - no snacking today.

Came in from evening class super hungry and OH had cooked toad in the hole as sausages 'needed eating up'. Wish i'd mfp'd the calories first - the sausage I usually eat are lentil based and low calories - the ones he'd bought came in at 500 cals just for the sausage. Could have been worse but thankfully I had declined the baked potato he'd also cooked.

Night all.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/03/2018 07:09

Eek granny I hope the sausage was worth it! What lentil sausages do you normally get?

Weigh in today and 2lbs off so that's half a stone since starting 3 weeks ago Grin it's slower than other diets I have tried over the years but I'm viewing this as a WOL and not just a quick fix. Plus years of yo-yoing and approaching 44, I know things won't go as quickly as in my 20s and 30s. Good luck to everyone else weighing in today Smile

No breakfast for me, maybe just a skinny sugar free vanilla latte, then chicken salad for lunch with some satsumas if I need them afterwards, then out for dinner so will be sensible but will also enjoy a Gin and a Wine

OohMrDarcy · 16/03/2018 07:13

Morning all,

Another 2lb off this morning, so that is 8lb in 2 weeks! Grin

Good luck to everyone weighing in this morning

snailhunter · 16/03/2018 07:26

SV here! Down another 2lb to 10st 1lb - only one lb off second target! Very pleased and looking forward to a lovely guilt free meal out for my birthday tomorrow.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/03/2018 07:27

Yay 2lb losses all round today Smile

littleladylawyer · 16/03/2018 08:21

Woo well done snail, mrdarcy and fortythree! What a lovely start to the weekend for you all.

fortythree I'm with you on the Winetonight, really looking forward to a crisp cold glass to finish off the working week.

I had lunch at 12:30 yesterday, then a 'mini meal' of eggs with a little three bean salad at 4:30, then main meal of chicken stir fry at 8:30 which worked really well, so I think that will be my general nfd plan going forwards.

FannyDaggers · 16/03/2018 08:28

Morning I’m joining the 2lb off club today so that’s 6lb in two weeks. Well done to snail, mrdarcy and fortythree on your kisses too, hope everyone has a good day

OohMrDarcy · 16/03/2018 08:56

Fantastic news all around on the SVs this morning! Well done all - Snail, 43, Fanny Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/03/2018 08:57

well done fanny Grin

FannyDaggers · 16/03/2018 09:02

I meant losses not kisses!

southeastlondonmum · 16/03/2018 09:05

Checking in on a Second FD this week. Good luck to all Friday fasters

NoWayNoHow · 16/03/2018 09:44

Well done 43, MrDarcy, Snail and FannyD - amazing!

0.5 gain for me this morning Sad. Trying desperately hard not to be disappointed as I know TOTM is on its way (fingers swollen up like sausages already), but it means 2 weeks in a row with no loss, which is frustrating when there's so much I need to lose.

Will keep on keeping on, though, and just hope that next week sees some results!

snailhunter · 16/03/2018 09:49

Keep on noway, it is so worth it. I have had two two-week blocks of no loss, total correlation with TOTM, followed in both cases by 2lb loss.

NoWayNoHow · 16/03/2018 09:57

Thanks snail - always good to hear that it's happened to others and been fine. It's been a while since I've done 5:2 properly, so can't really remember the peaks and troughs!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/03/2018 10:28

it is disheartening noway but you will probably get that whoosh after totm Flowers

snailhunter · 16/03/2018 10:42

Oh, and I had a week where I put on a pound! Here's my graph on MFP - you can very clearly see the TOTM STS/gains but the overall trend is down, which is what BCF always says to look for.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
slinkyme · 16/03/2018 10:53

Well done on all the losses. Great end to the week. No way especially with TOTM it's very normal to have a gain. Been there too. It will go. Keep the faith. Trying for a FD here too but again a busy day with multiple medical appointments for family members. Will need to keep strong not to turn to food to cope with tiredness and stress.

Iateallthebread · 16/03/2018 11:37

Great to hear of everybody’s losses, very inspiring! I weighed myself today and have gone up by a pound. I think that’s not too bad as I have only had one FD in three weeks after my cold. My endo pain kicked back off last night so I am sore and bloated too. I have to eat along with my pain killers so not sure I’ll manage any FDs for the next two weeks either. Trying not to get frustrated at my health getting in the way of my best laid plans. I’m going to focus on giving my body what it needs until the endo pain goes away then back on plan then. Wishing everybody all the best with their FDs.

MazDazzle · 16/03/2018 11:52

Sorry to hear you haven’t been well late. Flowers A pound is nothing, given the circumstances.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2018 11:57

Well done on all the SVs today, Snail, NrD, 43, Fanny
Great progress

lawyer Many of us can diet 2 days a week fairly easily, but dieting every day is miserable and ruins your social life.

Even if you are retraining your "normal" eating on NFDs
(e.g. you found it is much higher than TDEE and you are not losing well)
you should be able have at least one meal out per week, when you don't count cals.

You only need to take care that one meal doesn't stretch into an all-day feast
Also, keep to the NHS alcohol guidelines and our "no snacking"

NoWay The hormonal changes around totm cause water retention, which can be 1-7lb extra
That can easily disguise a 1lb weekly loss.

Stay focused, avoid the totm munchies (also caused by hormones) and the FD after totm ends should release that water
So, best not to weigh until after that FD, if scales depress you - but remember it is only a totm blip.

Thanks, snail That's a very helpful graph - and a pretty typical one for women who still have periods.

bread How often do you take your endo tablets ?
If it's twice daily, then have FD lunch & supper, or breakfast & supper

If it's 3 times, then I recommend you do mini-FDs (sub-10000~

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2018 11:59

Oops, several folk, who can't do full FDs and are struggling with weight, have successfully lost with 3 weekly mini-FDs (800-1000 cals):
Mon+Wed+Fri

OP posts:
Iateallthebread · 16/03/2018 12:10

Hi bcf, I take one in the morning and one in the evening. So yes I could try to fit my FD around that. I’m pleased I have lost my taste for all the bad snacks that I used to have since starting 5:2 but I want to be careful that I don’t start emotional eating which I am guilty of. I think I will try a mini FD and see how I get on as then I’d feel like I still had some control. Thank you.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2018 12:12

Well done on your no-snacking NSV, Granny

Fish is a very healthy choice, 43
I just realised I've had fish every day this week - but I love it Smile
5:2 has changed me; I used to eat masses of red meat, but evidence suggests that is best eaten more occasionally

Best choices at Italian restaurants
Starter: If others are having them, try to choose a small green salad with lemon / olive oil / vinegar.

Main: Fish / chicken / beans with pasta or vegetable rice, with tomato-based sauce
Avoid: pizza, garlic bread, creamy sauces in pasta dishes
Also avoid "double carbs"
so if you want bread, then have your fish with salad and a vinaigrette dressing

Dessert: Maybe just have espresso

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/03/2018 13:12

Thank you for the advice bcf today's food is going a bit pear shaped! I went to get my chicken salad and they had none left so opted for jacket spud with tuna and side salad. Got it back to my desk and the potato is hard and I can't eat it Sad so I've scraped the topping off and eaten that with the salad... hey ho! I have evenue more leeway for my Italian tonight Grin bit having not eaten since 7pm last night I was ready for a nice meal....

GrannyPenny · 16/03/2018 13:24

Snail that's a very good looking graph!

Sooooooo, Zumba was ..... an experience. Loved the music but it took me back to being at school, having read the book for homework only to find out it was the wrong book. The class is quite established, so it was just a case of watch and try to fathom out what they were doing. Not sure I'll go back although it made me realise how stiff my hips were!

After a few days of no sweet treats, i have to admit the cravings are quite bad at the moment. Distraction is the name of the game.

Goals for today. Exercise class - done; no snacking.