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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2018 19:30

My 15 mins bike ride each way was wonderful, no pain and my ankle actually feels stronger and more flexible Grin
A rare example of me ignoring the doc, who said I should wait 10-12 weeks after the injury- tomorrow will be 6 weeks,

The Rhein flat was perfect and I'll hear Monday if I've got it (ridiculous property boom in Frankfurt region, flats not on the market more than a day, so fingers crossed)

I had a delic supper at a bakery on the Rhein path: Mediterranean tarte flambé, green salad with egg, choc torte
Just as well this flat is so near the gym too Grin

purple My Vivani 92% cocoa chocolate bar is vegan, organic, fair trade from Ecuador, sweetened with coconut blossom instead of sugar
(produced by smiling unicorns !) genuinely tastes yum though

1-2 squares has almost no sugar and is very satisfying - just as well, because it's damn expensive
Available from health food shops & some supermarkets (I'm in Germany) or Amazon

I'm sure there must be similar 92% alternatives if this particular organic brand is not in the UK

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2018 19:35

You did well, pumper 670 is damn near perfect for b2b, as you are allowed 650 for those.

Well done, cheshire You really can have a scotch egg tomorrow Smile
How's the exercise going, btw ?
I remember you from the exercise thread - do post there about your exercise whenever you like, or to ask for more detailed advice

OP posts:
HLBug · 14/03/2018 19:44

Oh BCF that's great news about your cycle - you sound so happy and upbeat! Hopefully the path to a full recovery might not be so long after all. Do take care not to push yourself though.

pumper that's us done, woohoo! My B2B FD2 is ending on about 600 kcals. I had spicy chicken in pitta pockets for dinner and it was lush.

Looking forward to a NFD tomorrow Smile

CheshireSplat · 14/03/2018 19:56

Hi BCF. It's going really well, thanks, for asking. I joined that £70 a year at work gym and am doing 10 mins on rowing machine then weights once or twice a week. And jogging 2 or 3 times a week. And pilates once a week which I love. The thing I haven't started up again yet is swimming but I need to....

Need to work on FDs now! Had a couple of weeks off and finding it hard to get back into it.

Pleased your ankle held up, what a shame about your fall....

purpleviolet1 · 14/03/2018 20:02

BCF thanks I've ordered from amazon!

Glad your ankle is doing better Smile all the best with the flat!

MazDazzle · 14/03/2018 20:02

Welcome back Granny!

66 days Snail? That is impressive! I think 6 is my record...

I’ve got Lidl’s 81% chocolate in the fridge. It’s fair trade. One square after dinner really keeps the sugar cravings at bay. It’s the highest percentage of cocoa I’ve been able to find in any of the local supermarkets.

Had a HIIT class this afternoon. It was tough going. I can’t get to another class until Monday, so think I’m going to dust off my 30 Day Shred DVD. I keep promising to look up some yoga videos on YouTube but never get around to it.

For today’s NFD dinner I had Caesar salad with 2 boiled eggs, 2 x ryvita with cream cheese and houmous, a thin bagel with peanut butter and an apple (1000 cals). I am completely stuffed.

quackingduck222 · 14/03/2018 20:32

BCF that is fantastic news. So pleased your back on your bike again Smile

Purple- Lindt do a 90% version that seemed to be in all the supermarkets on offer 2 for £3 recently. I think for me it will take some getting used too it’s quite harsh.

Ordered the birch oil off amazon it’s not due for a while yet tho. But found some new leg toning moves I’m going to try.

OohMrDarcy · 14/03/2018 20:43

Evening all, BCF I'm so pleased your ankle held up, take it easy and hopefully you will continue to improve!!

FD for me tomorrow, and I'm planning a veg loaded (extra lean) beef stew for dinner. I expect that will come in 400 at the most based on the beef cals, so can have a little something at lunchtime if needed.

Well done Cheshire on surviving the shop.... my idea of hell!!

peachypips · 14/03/2018 20:51

I like the Lidl one too. Tried Waitrose one last week and wasn't as nice imo. I've run out so can't take a pic of Lidl one but here are some pics of others I'm trying- Waitrose and Aldi.

B2b fast days finished thank goodness. 500 cals each day.

Well done all!

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat
Pumperthepumper · 14/03/2018 20:57

Excellent news on your ankle BCF, that’s brilliant!

High five HLBug delighted it’s over. Think this’ll be my last B2B for a while!

TalkinPeace · 14/03/2018 21:14

Delighted to hear that both flat and foot are getting into the right place at the right time @bigchocfrezy

HLBug · 14/03/2018 21:24

Well done peachy! B2B crew smashed it this week Grin

Pumperthepumper · 14/03/2018 21:26

peachy sorry, I missed your post! Excellent work on the B2B Flowers

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/03/2018 21:41

Well done b2bers... impressive
Nfd today and I've saved another 300cals for the weekend, can't believe how stuffed I am though and how much I've eaten today!!!
FD tomorrow, who else is Thurs fasting with me? [Smile]

purpleviolet1 · 14/03/2018 21:45

Forty three I'm in tomorrowGrin

slinkyme · 14/03/2018 22:18

Been off the grid for a while as too much going on in personal life. But managed to get back to a FD today. Probably over 500 cals but felt good to get back to the discipline and also looking forward to energy levels returning. Will hope to do another FD on Friday but will see how it goes.

Sorry not been able to read up and keep up with recent messages but hope you are all doing well with FDs, NFDs, SVs and NSVs.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2018 23:25

Well done, Wednesday fasters Smile

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 14/03/2018 23:36

Thanks for the welcome back!

permanentlyfrazzled1 -- technically a good idea re the food planning but my OH does most of the cooking. He is supportive but only as far as it doesn't impinge on his food choices, which is reasonable as it's not his fault I can't be trusted with snacks and sweets. I do have a couple of events coming up this year and they should be inspiring me, but at the same time they're making me terribly nervous as I'll be on show and it's non-negotiable I'll have to have my photograph taken by all and sundry and the thought of that is very stressful.

Quacking - definitely one day at a time.

BigChoc - seems I missed all the drama but very pleased to hear the ankle is well on the mend now. Fingers crossed re the flat.

So, today. No snacking. Run done. I'm drinking water to keep the kitchen closed until midnight and I get the opportunity to book the next gym class. Bookings open fortnightly in advance but with only 10 spaces they often book up in a couple of minutes.

Night all.

OohMrDarcy · 15/03/2018 07:11

Morning all, check-in for my Thursday FD here. Good luck to anyone else fasting. Let's rock this.

peachypips · 15/03/2018 07:15

We did indeed smash it b2bers!

I've woken up this morning very weak, dizzy and lightheaded. Any thoughts on what to do? I've just had a small amount of porridge.

Good luck Thurs fasters- go for it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/03/2018 07:17

Morning purple and mrdarcy

Hoping to glug water and tea till lunch than have some soup and chicken or egg, no idea yet re: dinner. Probably need to plan fds a little better Grin

Iamblossom · 15/03/2018 07:41

Morning all.

Went a bit mad on NFD yesterday, there was white wine, peanuts and buffet sandwiches. Hmm

I had two small wraps and one quarter of a sandwich, all were delicious but Brie and bacon and smoked salmon and cream cheese were involved. Before I hear you shout Poo crumbs these come in individually wrapped brown paper pockets. I also had a handful of crisps.

I estimated that lot at 600.....impossible to know but just out of interest do you think that sounds far too little or about right???? (Just for the sandwiches and crisps btw, not the nuts and wine!)

Pumperthepumper · 15/03/2018 07:42

Another 2lbs off here, very pleased.

Good luck to everyone fasting today!

Peachy how are you feeling after your porridge, any better?

slinkyme · 15/03/2018 07:45

Well done pumper. Well clearly having a break from fasting seems to have had the opposite effect. After the first FD back yesterday today the scales show an all time low of 58.3kg. 0.3 lower than lowest so far. Next target to break that 58kg barrier and to see 57s. Best of luck to all fasters today.

yogi47 · 15/03/2018 08:10

Checking in for FD here, birthday yesterday but not a total disaster (apart from very enjoyable cake, fizz and cheese with no guilt) but trying to compensate over rest of the working week. Let's see what the scales say tomorrow! Good luck today everyone - we've totally got this!