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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 13/03/2018 12:57

I’m in the vertically challenged club at 5ft 3. I was quite delighted actually as I’ve always said I’m 5ft 2. Grin

Little lady I’d go for hard boiled eggs, ham, or crabsticks in your situation. I usually keep these on hand for days I get headaches and desperately needed to eat something. Otherwise I’d be reaching for the crap.

littleladylawyer · 13/03/2018 13:19

Thanks Blue, lamb and duck. I'll make sure it's something healthy and protein based as opposed to junk. Duck o used to love crab sticks, not had them for years!

I'm also tiny, just over 5'1. Makes clothes shopping a pain, most skirts/dresses come to an unflattering mid shin length!

Pumperthepumper · 13/03/2018 13:25

I’m just under 5’1, totally agree about clothes shopping, nothing ever fits properly Angry

BlueBelle123 · 13/03/2018 13:29

I use to think that I was short at 5.5 but here I feel like a positive giant Grin

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 13:49

5.3 here - I struggle with jeans - live in skinnies - if I want to wear any other style I have to wear heels!

purpleviolet1 · 13/03/2018 13:51

5'2.5 here !

quackingduck222 · 13/03/2018 13:52

Lamb if your in the U.K. I swear by ASDA bootcut jeans in short length absolutely perfect for me at 5ft3 for wearing with flats / trainers and the best thing is they are £10.

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 13:54

ooooh thanks - must get to an ASDA!!

quackingduck222 · 13/03/2018 13:54

Little lady I’ve been having them quite a bit on FDs as they are super low in calories.

quackingduck222 · 13/03/2018 13:55

Definitely lamb they are really quite flattering

CheshireSplat · 13/03/2018 14:34

Bluebelle , yes you are a giant Grin. I'm also 5'3".

CheshireSplat · 13/03/2018 14:35

And actually, the 2 people I know in RL who've done 5:2 (and extremely successfully) are 5'4" ish and 4'10".... Maybe the name 5:2 confuses people!

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 15:26

Have eaten my yog with berries and a 2 egg ham and mushroom omelette.

Have made a turkey bean chilli for tea. Will aim to eat this about 7pm. Argh! Must hang in there. Don't think I'll do b2b again.

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 15:31

Not helped by also cooking a bolognese sauce for my kids and spending the entire afternoon in the kitchen.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/03/2018 15:45

not that long to go lam hold on in there Smile

OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2018 15:58

Afternoon shorties Wink

I'm feeling tall today at 5' 4.5" ( the half an inch is new since my last asthma checkup!)

Blossom, you can hang in there - lots of water, you know the drill!

TalkinPeace · 13/03/2018 16:07

@HLBug
Yup I use the Boditrax machine at the gym - I do not own a set of scales.
I tend to log in, do a reading and then look at the actual numbers back at home.
My favourite bit is the "metabolic age" box
My least favourite is the fat percentage on each limb !

TalkinPeace · 13/03/2018 16:09

By the way,
as one of 5'5" brigade towering over everybody ......

there is a simple reason why there are more short people on all weight loss threads ....
tall people sticking to 2000 calories will not put on weight
short people will

it just shows how damaging that random number on the cereal box always was

Iateallthebread · 13/03/2018 16:24

I’m feeling quite tall now at 5’ 7”. I’m lucky in that I can carry a bit of weight and it doesn’t show for a while, apart from my clothes getting tighter. But I think that led to complacency and recent pictures definitely show the extra weight!

macnab · 13/03/2018 16:55

lamb I'm at work which is the only reason I think I'm coping ok on this B2B FD. If I was at home I'd definitely have caved, especially if cooking for the kids!

I had a thins from Aldi, toasted, with a small tin of spaghetti hoops (all the juice drained out, I hate the juice!) and when I get home I'm having a 2 egg omelette with onion, mushrooms, pepper, spinach and sweetcorn. I fear I'm going to turn into Gwen from Gavin & Stacey with all the omelettes but they are tasty and nutritious and I'm not mad keen on veg or bean chilli, or fish with veg. I think I need to broaden my culinary horizons...

peachypips · 13/03/2018 17:02

That's a good point TiP. You don't meet a lot of tall fat people. Bastards.

Hello up there giants! Is the air thinner?

Really fed up today. Hate fasting grr

peachypips · 13/03/2018 17:04

Boditrax- my metabolic age is now a bit lower than my actual age mainly because I am quite muscular. Shame it's covered with a layer of fat!

Iateallthebread · 13/03/2018 17:09

Macnab I’ve been making some of the recipes from Meera Sodha and Anna Jones from th Guardian food section. I’m getting huge bowlful of curry or veg stew for under 300 calories and they’re very tasty. Made this one today: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/03/leek-mushroom-kale-pea-stir-fry-the-new-vegan-meera-sodha

and this six ingredient stew yesterday: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/29/anna-jones-recipes-for-root-vegetable-winter-stews
I have lots left over which I’m sticking in the freezer.

BlueBelle123 · 13/03/2018 17:51

Late those recipes look yummy!

Had my one meal today I reckon I've come in about 400.......its too early for bed so I think I will go wallow in the bath to kill some time and keep me out of the kitchen.

come on fellow Tuesday Fasters we've nearly done it!!!

Iateallthebread · 13/03/2018 18:10

They are good bluebelle, especially the six ingredient one. I couldn’t believe it was so tasty.