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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 13/03/2018 07:57

Same here blossom was met with stupid comments so I never mention it apart from one friend who is intrigued and asks lots of questions.

3lbs overnight is amazing. Good luck for today.

Well done to the Monday fasters so many of you to name!

Not having a FD but I’m pulling back today as ate too much yesterday will just have my evening meal tonight.

I’ve been on YouTube and found a few thigh buster routines so going to learn the moves and include them into my gym routine

Good luck to today’s fasters

Bakedappleflavour · 13/03/2018 08:01

Morning all. NFD for me today but not hungry so haven't eaten yet besides a cuppa. Another FD on Wednesday. I have chosen Monday and Wednesday as my fast days as I work those days. When I have my nearly two year old DS at home with me (as I do today) I would find it impossible to fast.

Ended yesterday on 690 cals which I was very pleased with for my first day back into it.

MazDazzle · 13/03/2018 08:02

The scales were disappointing for me too, purple and I feel bloated round the middle.

I go to New York in 6 weeks and I’d really like my clothes to fit nicely. I’ve been bouncing around at the same weight for ages. Time to knuckle down! On the plus side, I was going through my notes and I’m more than a stone lighter than I was this time last year.

HLBug · 13/03/2018 08:19

BCF 22 extra calories to be precise Grin

HLBug · 13/03/2018 08:20

Ok lovely Tuesday Fasters - time to put our bodies into repair mode Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/03/2018 08:51

blather away lamb Grin same here, apart from my DH I don't tend to tell too many people...

well done baked that's not a bad first FD

purpleviolet1 · 13/03/2018 09:14

Weighed this morning. 9st 2.7lbs. Exactly what I was the morning before my 2nd Fd last week ... at the very least I want to sts! Was planning to do 2nd FD on Thursday.. but tempted to make it into a b2b 🤔 I'll probably just stick to Thursday and have two healthy NFD with lots and lots of water

OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2018 09:22

Morning all,

Woken feeling much better after my migraine this last night. Not hungry at all as yet so sticking to water for now and planning what delicious meal I can have for dinner.

Well done to everyone who managed a good FD or NFD yesterday and good luck to those fasting today.

peachypips · 13/03/2018 09:23

Well done to all those who fasted over the weekend (I could never do it!) and to those who are getting SVs and NSVs. Amazing re your maintenance Quacking! And welcome to newbies.

Baked Apple- I do low carb med diet most of the time but do my two days at 500. Doesn't make a lot of difference to me. I am also 11.9 and wanting to be 9.7. Are you short? There's a large no of 5ft 3 people on here.

My NSV happened on Friday- I had to buy a bra in a much smaller size!

HLBug- I use boditrax.

Doing a B2B today and tomorrow and am feeling very fed up today for some reason. Really grumpy! Also have a sense of humour failure as others have mentioned! Unescorted- I actually find it easier to do a b2b- I get it all over in one go and the second day is very very easy. Hello other b2bers- we can do it!

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 09:36

peachy I hope that's true!!!

macnab · 13/03/2018 09:55

Good morning everyone.

Yesterday was a FD for me but we were a bit all over the place yesterday evening as it was DS birthday. I thought we were going to subway after our activity but it turned out to be Burger King. I had nothing at all to eat yesterday until I got home from work and was (a) starving (!!) and (b) told about Burger King so I had a small boiled egg and one slice of half & half bread toasted and later in BK I had a junior whopper and will admit to stealing about 8 chips from DD Blush I've logged everything on My Fitness Pal and it's under 650 cals so I'm on a FD again today and hoping that I've not done too much damage? I'm not sure if you do B2B it has to be no carbs? If so then I've wasted my time!!
My trousers feel a teeny bit looser today, so hopefully things are moving in the right direction.

Good luck to everyone else on a FD, and congrats to everyone seeing success on the scales or otherwise Smile

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 10:15

macnab the beauty of 5:2 is you can make up your cals with anything. The only reason I am doing protein only today is yesterday my cals were carb heavy and it make me feel very weak.

peachypips · 13/03/2018 10:26

Iam- I have found it to be so. It's like the second day I am used to it so it just happens. I think much less about food the second b2b day than the first.

Agree too that it doesn't matter what you eat on NFDs but I find if I eat protein and lots of veg it is more filling.

OohMrDarcy · 13/03/2018 11:05

So my birch oil has arrived! It smells AMAZING! Grin... so what do I do with it? Just rub a little in to areas that may get saggy? Before or after dry brushing?

Bakedappleflavour · 13/03/2018 11:15

Are you short? There's a large no of 5ft 3 people on here

Yes! I am 5ft2 :)

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2018 11:16

We all come here to blather, Blossom Grin
Nowhere else really appreciates the work involved in achieving SVs, NSVs

I hope the fracture clinic goes smooth;y and on time

OP posts:
macnab · 13/03/2018 11:26

Thanks Iamblossom that's cheered me up!

I'm also 5'2" !

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2018 11:28

MrD Massage it in briefly and just leave
Any brushing or showering should be done before

Birch oil does have a lovely smell; I often get compliments on how I smell Wink
(I have it because of dry skin - with so much showering at gym & home)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2018 11:38

5:2 fits with any eating preference / ethics:
vegan / veggie / low carber / Paleo / Mediterranean / omnivore …

On NFDs eat "normal food", but better results if you are sensible about amounts of junk & booze
To to boost health benefits of this WOL: drink lots of water, cut down on fizzy drinks & sweet crap, keep to NHS alcohol guidelines

On FDs avoid all junk and booze, so no cake, biscuits etc
The aim is to pack in all the nutrients you can, hence lots of veg
FDs can be high or low carb. but most folk feel fuller on FDs if they reduce starchy carbs - see what suits you.

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 13/03/2018 12:08

Hi all.

I have a question- I don't normally eat until lunchtime at work, when I have something with lots of veg, protein and beans/chickpeas. As DP and I don't get home until about 8, dinner isn't normally until about 8:30.

I find I get very hungry before dinner- I can't eat a bigger/ more filling lunch though. Would it be a bad idea to have a sort of 'mini meal' between 4-5pm? I was thinking of something like a protein pot/ boiled eggs/ veg and humous to keep me going.

Not sure if this would be bad from an insulin point of view- any thoughts welcome!

BlueBelle123 · 13/03/2018 12:31

Personally Littlelady I would have something at 4 if it makes this WOE sustainable. In your position if I didn't, I think I would be more likely to grab sweet junk if the hunger got too bad or my will power had gone AWOL that day!!

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 12:37

yes I would too littlelady - I keep hard boiled eggs in the fridge for this exact purpose

Thanks Big Choc, DS1 back at school much to his disgust

peachypips · 13/03/2018 12:40

Are there actually any people on here who aren't 5.3/2?!

Maybe 5:2 is a diet for shorties!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/03/2018 12:41

I'm 5'7 Grin

FannyDaggers · 13/03/2018 12:52

I’m 5 ft 9 Grin