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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
purpleviolet1 · 12/03/2018 19:38

Enjoy Zumba bug!

Fd complete under 500 cals.

Feeling deflated today as I was 9st 4.1 lbs on the scales this morning. I was 9st 1.2lbs 3 days ago (morning after last FD). I feel like the last few days aren't going to result in a loss Sad. Was feeling very constipated but thankfully I've been now and the scales are the same!

MazDazzle · 12/03/2018 19:39

I wouldn’t describe myself as a weightlifter, but I’m definitely built for strength rather than speed! There’s people of all ages and abilities at the class and many of them lift a lot heavier than I do.

Zumba is good fun HLB. Let us know how you get on!

I had two bowls of lentil soup for dinner. Been rushing around all day and hadnit leftnover from yesterday, so it was an easy FD meal, even though I didn’t count the calories.

I’ve been angry too lateallthebread. Anyone else fine they’re a bit more snappy on FDs?

Dig in Monday fasters (me included!) you’re almost there. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2018 19:46

Very impressive kettlebells NSV there, maz

Welcome, bakedApple Smile
The Mediterranean diet has been proven to reduce several health risks, so that is an excellent choice of food
It gives you the option of one glass of red wine on NFDs too Smile

800 cal FDs are a good way to ease into fasting
If you have a high TDEE you may be able to continue losing well after this initial period.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 12/03/2018 19:59

I should have added I feel the last few days won't result in a loss because I know I've not been as focused. Some grazing going on Blush

Unescorted · 12/03/2018 20:07

I don't know how people can do a b2b even with the higher calorie allowance.

Butteredparsn1ps · 12/03/2018 20:19

I've been making sandwiches with nimble bread which is around 51 calories per slice. They are small slices though!!

2 slices with lots of salad is only just over a hundred calories so you can add some low calorie protein too.

Today I had 2 slices of naked bacon (it's nitrate free) which = 80 calories.

Iamblossom · 12/03/2018 20:22

Good work buttered will look out for hat bread.

unescorted I am starting to regret the decision already...

yogi47 · 12/03/2018 20:32

Well done everyone today. Kitchen closing at 560 here.... need to invest in a tape measure for the NSV inch loss... Mary Berry and Masterchef tonight anyone? 🙄

FannyDaggers · 12/03/2018 20:44

All done here at 590, looking forward to a NFD tomorrow!

OohMrDarcy · 12/03/2018 20:57

Kitchen closed here on 523. I have a stinker of a migraine now but given the day I've had at work I can't blame it o the FD. Going to head to bed early with my water and wait for it to disappear over night.

Well done to the other Monday fasters.

BlueBelle123 · 12/03/2018 20:59

Well done all you Monday Fasters the finish line is in sight!!!!

I may do a FD tomorrow but I'm not 100% so I shall see how I am tomorrow or else it will be tdee.

Iateallthebread · 12/03/2018 21:22

All done at 525 calories plus a bit of milk for my tea. I managed not to shout at anybody too much. Hopefully the next FD will be less grumpy.

HLBug · 12/03/2018 21:32

Zumba done! And it was ok... certainly better than sitting on the couch - maybe when I learn the choreography I'll get into a bit more.

Does anyone use a Boditrax machine? @TalkinPeace am I right I thinking you do? I took my baseline stats tonight but I really dont know what all the numbers mean or what I need to aim to improve. Bonus NSV - I am actually 3cm taller than I thought I was though Grin

HLBug · 12/03/2018 21:33

Blue tomorrow will be day 1 of my back to back if you'd like a fast day buddy Wink

Pumperthepumper · 12/03/2018 21:56

HLBug and Blue day one of B2B tomorrow for me too, see you there!

littleladylawyer · 12/03/2018 22:00

Well done everyone. Kitchen closed at 390 today, I found it pretty easy as I ate too much roast dinner and crumble yesterday and was very busy at work so no time to think about eating!

Looking forward to a good sleep

littleladylawyer · 12/03/2018 22:03

Well done everyone. Kitchen closed at 390 today, I found it pretty easy as I ate too much roast dinner and crumble yesterday and was very busy at work so no time to think about eating!

Looking forward to a good sleep!

HLBug · 12/03/2018 22:05

Yeeeees pumper - let's do this Halo

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/03/2018 22:23

FD done Halo kitchen closed at 496... just watched masterchef though and I've come to bed craving a curry and with a huge rumble in my belly!!! that'll teach me

Well done everyone else. Nfd tomorrow and weds then 2nd FD on Thursday, I really don't think I could manage a B2B so hats off to you guys attempting one tomorrow Shock

Made a roasted veg and pesto rice salad for lunch tomorrow, I can't wait.... night all

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2018 00:08

Well done, Monday fasters

lawyer Concentrating hard on something other than food, e.g. work or chores, is proven to reduce hunger significantly
Your brain has no time to think of food.

bug 3 cm taller - what have you been doing Grin
that increases TDEE, gives you wiggle room

parsnips FDs and NFDs, my sandwiches are always open, i.e. bread only underneath
It reduces the GL of the meal
Also, the fillings are usually more interesting than bread

OP posts:
BlueBelle123 · 13/03/2018 07:01

HLBug and Pump I'm already for my FD I'll keep you both company today but you'll be on your own tomorrow Grin

Anymore Tuesday fasters?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/03/2018 07:10

Woken up not hungry after yesterday's FD again so just going to go with it and listen to my body....

Good luck Tues fasters

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 07:24

Morning all.

Not hungry but I know it kicks in for me at around 10. I will be at the hospital for my son's fracture clinic appointment at that time so that should help.

No one ever said I didn't like a challenge!!

Lost 3 pounds overnight even on 650! 8 10 this morning.

Terrible night's sleep though, although that may be booze withdrawal as that was second night in a row alcohol free Blush. Tonight will be third - another major bonus of 5:2 for me is that I don't drink.

Iamblossom · 13/03/2018 07:25

Going protein all the way today.

God so glad I can blather on to you guys here about this, anyone in RL would be utterly sick of me by now!!!

BlueBelle123 · 13/03/2018 07:28

Smile I agree Iamblossom very few people IRL know I am doing 5:2!