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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 12/03/2018 09:41

Darcy - of course we still need to have days / nights off otherwise it would be utterly miserable.

Definitely a good idea re toning / oil & brushing.

Cheshire thats the spirit and you are right you won’t see that number again. That’s wonderful about your park run.

snailhunter · 12/03/2018 10:33

Well done blue and unescorted! Checking in for FD today as per usual. Feeling fine so far: so much to do I'm not really thinking about lack of food!

FannyDaggers · 12/03/2018 10:58

Checking in for my FD today, planning on nothing for breakfast, miso soup for lunch and a spinach and paneer curry for dinner. Need to get a run in today as not much opportunity otherwise this week so will see how that goes.
Well done blue unescorted and yogi and good luck to all who are fasting!

Iamblossom · 12/03/2018 11:31

great losses on here. Well done all.

Have changed the planned menu for today's first in an attempted b2b:

3 eggs
soup and rice cakes
prawn salad
Options hot choc

I am a bit gutted as I had planned a long run this morning and I just can't run at the moment, perhaps ever again. My right thigh is actually quite painful if I try to run, I think it is all connected to my dodgy lower back and probably a very tight ham string - I do stretch loads and now do yoga but I just think it would be stupid to run through the discomfort and possibly make it worse.

I went to the gym instead and did 30 mins on the XTrainer and a 30 minute power walk.

Was really hungry about a hour ago but a strong black coffee has helped loads, about to have another one.

I do have a confession to make - on NFDs I do still snack - healthy choices and mindfully but one of the things I find hard about FDs is not reaching for something small to quell the hunger pangs and I would find that too hard to also not be able to do on NFDs....I get the logic behind it, I just haven't attempted it myself! And I STILL find 5:2 incredibly effective - I am very evangelical about it if people ask me, do you find that you are?

littleladylawyer · 12/03/2018 11:43

Well done blue, unescorted and yogi.

duck you sound like you've got a good solid maintenance plan in place. I'm still finding it a bit difficult as my tdee is only 1350 and I have quite a lot of weekend social events which almost all seem to revolve around food and drink. I'm trying not to get into a cycle of being too restrictive in the week then going mad at weekends but it's tricky when a restaurant meal with wine could easily use up my entire tdee!

FD today, saving my cals for this evening. I'm going to go to m&s at lunch and see if there is a nice ready meal to bulk out with more veg. Good luck all the Monday fasters!

missludgatecircus · 12/03/2018 11:45

hello all! emerging from lurking. Fell off the wagon spectacularly during the snowy weather but picking up again and on my first FD this week today.

Was a lot more sensible last week although only managed mini FDs on Mon and Weds. Weekend was challenging but restrained myself from a glass of wine with our Thai meal last night - very unusual for me!

Will have lentil soup today for lunch, and a baked sweet potato with tuna and spring onions, and a mountain of broccoli for dinner.

Good lucked to all Monday fasters today!

Bakedappleflavour · 12/03/2018 11:54

Please may I join? Did 5:2 before but massively fell off the wagon so I am officially "starting again" today. I'm going to ease myself in by doing 800 cal fast days instead of 500 cal fast days for a couple of weeks (plus following a med diet which is basically what I eat anyway). Has anyone else done similar?

Today I haven't eaten yet (had some tea for which I've set aside 200ml soy milk - 44 cals) but I plan to have one hard boiled egg with loads of salad for lunch, followed by lentil and tomato soup for dinner.

Wish me luck!

Bakedappleflavour · 12/03/2018 11:54

Oh and I am 11st10 and would like to get down to 9st7 :)

macnab · 12/03/2018 12:20

Happy Monday everyone Smile

FD here for me too, and coping fine so far which is probably because I ate quite a lot yesterday Blush but it was a special occasion, plus I did ALL the cooking so I deserved it. Still, DH called on way home last night and offered to pick me up a special ice cream but I declined! He was wondering if I was ok!!

I don't eat at all on FD until I get home from work, and this evening we're going to be out & about and will end up in Subway - thank you to whoever mentioned their site earlier on this thread, I was able to design my own chicken salad and calorie count it so I can be sure it will come in under the 500 cals Smile

Good luck to all those on FD today

MazDazzle · 12/03/2018 13:15

Checking in for a FD today. Had a wobble this morning when I wasn’t sure if I could be bothered, but it passed.

Had a kettlebells class this morning. Managed the whole class with a 12kg. I’d have switched to a 10kg kettlebell halfway through had it not been for my instructor.

Good luck to all of the other Monday fasters!

quackingduck222 · 12/03/2018 13:16

Maz Shock OMG 12kg that is bloody good going. Are you a weightlifter?

Iateallthebread · 12/03/2018 13:40

First FD in a fortnight is proving rather tricky. I’m not especially hungry but I am especially grumpy! I’ve had some soup so hopefully I will be less grumpy now.

snailhunter · 12/03/2018 14:23

Nice cup of tea always helps me through the grumpy bits late.

Iateallthebread · 12/03/2018 14:59

Thanks snail. Having a cuppa now.

Bakedappleflavour · 12/03/2018 16:42

OMG I'm SO HUNGRY.

snailhunter · 12/03/2018 16:47

I've just spent an hour re-hanging the sliding wardrobe door that my son managed to pull off this morning.

I am REALLY looking forward to dinner.

OohMrDarcy · 12/03/2018 16:52

Evening all,

hope the Monday fasters are hanging in there! I'm feeling cold today so drinking a bit more tea - lactose free milk (and only a dribble) so not the end of the world calories wise. Dinner has just gone in the oven and I can't bloody wait!

Another FD nearly complete... ish anyway!

HLBug · 12/03/2018 17:26

Woohoo to blue, unescorted and yogi - fantastic work guys!! And anyone else I've missed who has had a SV or NSV this week. Maz I have no idea what kettlebells are but 12kg sounds very impressive!

Keep going Monday Club - you're nearly there now. I'm going for a B2B tomorrow and Wednesday.

Waves to Iateallthebread - you're close to me up here in the NE.

And welcome to baked, and well done for jumping straight back in.

I'm off to Zumba tonight - first ever time so I'll let you all know how I get on.

Butteredparsn1ps · 12/03/2018 17:42

Well done to everyone with a success - what a lovely day to start the week!!

I'm trying B2B again today and tomorrow and so far I have found it better than last week...

I've become quite obsessive about making calories count and had a small BLT sandwich for lunch. It had more lettuce than bacon but lots of flavour and came in at less than 200 calories which made me happy.

Off to make a veggie curry for tea.

Iamblossom · 12/03/2018 17:52

Hi all.

buttered how did you manage that, did you only have one piece of bread?

I went to walk dog at about 4 and had a bit of a whitey, got sweaty and felt wobbly - I don't think I had enough protein in my "lunch". Will change that tomorrow I think.

Not particularly looking forward to this again tomorrow, but feel committed now and if I don't it will mean i have had too many cals for a proper fd. May not exercise tomorrow, I think that contributed to me feeling weak this avo.

snailhunter · 12/03/2018 18:42

Look after yourself, lamblossom, and listen to what your body is telling you. More protein sounds like a great idea.

Kitchen closed for me today at 414. Massive stir fry with onion, peas, pepper, broccoli, courgette, spinach, garlic and ginger - basically all the leftover veg in the fridge. Vanilla skyr and an orange. Happily stuffed.

Iateallthebread · 12/03/2018 18:44

Waves back to bug!

Keep going Bakedapple. You’re nearly done and then tomorrow you can have whatever you like.

Unescorted · 12/03/2018 19:08

There is a lamb and chickpea tagine in the pressure cooker. I am so hungry.. so far today I have had 1 cup of tea with 2 teaspoons of semi skim milk in. A zillion and one cups of black coffee and a sense of humour failure. I am trying to put off dinner for as long as possible so I have a full (er) belly for bed.

Iamblossom · 12/03/2018 19:28

Kitchen closed on bang on 650.

Planning this for tomorrow:

0% Greek yog with blueberries

2 egg ham and mushroom omelette

Turkey chilli

Iamblossom · 12/03/2018 19:29

650 does mean you can split it into 3 "meals"