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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 22:37

Vit D deficiency can also lead to weight gain

Get plenty of sleep, purple and don't try to fast if you don't feel up to it Flowers

Do drink plenty of water and also boost fish - salmon, herring, sardines - and egg yolk - all have high Vit D
Veg & fruit will help improve your general health - iirc you are working on achieving at least the minimum 5 a day

Also, take a walk outside when the sun makes an appearance - sunlight helps your body manufacture Vit D.
The aim (tricky in winter !) is to be out in 15 mins sunshine per day without sunscreen

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2017 22:41

If you are choosing the supplements yourself, i.e. not prescribed,
then make sure you get Vit D3 which is much more biologically available to your body than Vit D2

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 06/12/2017 00:05

Thanks BCF Smile

Bestbees · 06/12/2017 07:06

Missludgate you look amazing

Poor u purple. Hopefully with the right supplements you will feel much better.

Fd for me today. Nfds still all over the place here but when i had pmt munchies i stuck with fruit toast and pnb rather than crusps or choc so thats better at least!

quackingduck222 · 06/12/2017 08:17

MrsLudgate - wow you look absolutely stunning.

It’s Wednesday I don’t know where the time has gone.

I had a ropey weekend. Fasted Friday and went out drinking Saturday. Note to self, don’t do that again as I got Very drunk very quickly.

My plan was to fast on the Sunday as I had prepared tea in advance for when we got home Saturday night but it was far too late and I couldn’t see the stove let alone cook on it. Grin

So I actually went from Friday tea time until Sunday with no food. So I forefitted my 2nd FD of the week.

I got one under my belt yesterday and in future I’m going to be mindful about not leaving it until Sunday and running out of time.

I didn’t do a official weigh in yesterday as I didn’t like the numbers Grin but it’s sorting itself out now and I seem to have got over my sticky stall.

Justanothernap · 06/12/2017 13:33

Ha! Bigger pickers need bigger knickers should be my mantra BCF.

Managed NFD with almost no snacking and within TDEE yesterday and back on FD today. Normally just have 1 meal but really hungry today so had lunch of a boiled egg & a tomato. Will prob end up with FD of 600 which is good enough.

mrsludgate you look fantastic!

1moreRep · 06/12/2017 20:26

hi all i've been amazingly busy at work pulling 17hour days do ive been off plan since tuesday- i did however keep the gym up and made better choices than the teams chippy dinner.

So i weighed myself tuesday before ds and had put 1lb on but i'm hoping after a 2nd ds tomoz that will be off.

positives i have found is that i don't have the destructive hunger i used to abd i have learnt how important sleep is- the days i work with little sleep were the days i craved shite the most.

Also i have started listening to a pod cast Ben coomber - he is amazing for fixing the mental side of nutrition

Bestbees · 06/12/2017 20:32

Rep that sounds like a tough week, but that you have made good choices. In a way the NSV are even more important as they get us to a healthy place i life rather than focusing on a number.

I have had a tough fd. Forgot my stock cube which i rely on for salt through the day. As a result massive headache and dizziness. So i had 8 nuts and added a pievlce of toast to my omlette and veg dinner. Not ideal but todaybis the heaviest day of my period and i felt rubbish!

purpleviolet1 · 06/12/2017 22:23

I'm not back at my lowest since starting 5:2 pre-holiday weight of 9st10lb yet (was 9st10.9lb this morning) and I just had negative thoughts of jacking it all in. But then I remembered I started off at 10st 2 or 3 lb so that's a few lb off since the start. It doesn't matter if I have blips and gains along the way as long as the lowest weight keeps decreasing. Hopefully it will. Would love to be in the 8's again. I was happy at 8 and a half stone

Motheroffourdragons · 06/12/2017 22:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Bestbees · 07/12/2017 06:17

Sts thus week again. I know why, not good on nfd, keep snacking and also didnt have a great fast yesterday and i have my period. Onwards. Aim for this week is no snacking and skipping breakfast if it is not the day after a fd.

Good luck thursday fasters!

quackingduck222 · 07/12/2017 08:26

I feel for you purple. I often get negative thoughts usually when I’m hungry. But on the positive side your loosing and that’s amazing. You may just be going through a blip / stall.

Your on it, your doing it and that’s amazing in itself. Just think if you weren’t would be be gaining? I know I would be. My track record seems to be 2 weeks off plan = 10lbs on. I’ve learnt my lesson and it’s not worth it.

I’ve put into practice the no snacking over the last 2 weeks by preparing my snack of pork crunch when I’m dishing up dinner as soon as I’ve finished my meal I eat it and it’s working well. Definitely less deprived and calorie wise they are really not bad. Also I’m using a sharing bag and that lasts me 3 portions and for me that’s pretty unheard of.

2nd FD of the week for me and feeling really positive.

Justanothernap · 07/12/2017 08:28

Yay I broke the 10s! Literally just at 10.13 but I'll take it. I have to report that tracking NFDs and reducing snacking got me off my plateau (I'm working on stopping snacking totally...) Also whilst I don't want anyone to struggle.. I'm a little bit relieved I'm not the only one who needs to work on NFDs & snacking. Sorry! I guess it's retraining bad habits.

To be honest I do think losing weight or sts in December is a bit of a miracle. I'd be happy to sts rest of Dec.

purpleviolet1 · 07/12/2017 09:33

I agree sts is a miracle over the Christmas period!

Feeling better re the aches I was experiencing so think I'll attempt an FD today. Although I did have a piece of chocolate from the advent calendar this morning 🤔

HLBug · 07/12/2017 09:49

FD for me today too! It’s BCFs insulin graph that helps me keep snacking in check - I’m ridiculously competitive and would feel quite disappointed if I “gave in” and caused a peak. Mid afternoon is the most dangerous time for me.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2
5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2
HLBug · 07/12/2017 09:50

And welcome to the 10 stone club justanother - it’s a lovely feeling Smile Congratulations!

purpleviolet1 · 07/12/2017 11:12

Grin justanother that's great!! Congrats !

Quackingduck thank you. I have a NSV - last night dh commented I had lost weight off my stomach Grin

I think you are right. Each day is a new day and just try our best. I'm just having water today until dinner as I feel I need a cleanse. I feel bloated with undigested food

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2017 12:25

Congrats on breaking into the 10 stone somethings, just

Concentrate on No Snacking, best bees and also keep drinking water all day
That should retrain your habits on NFDs and boost progress

OP posts:
Maclairey · 07/12/2017 16:08

Hi all, I was on here last year doing 5:2 until I fell pregnant in January. Well baby is here now and is 9 weeks old and I have two stone to shift. I want to get back on 5:2 as it worked well for me before and with 3 children under 5 it’s a way of eating that I can manage. My concern is that I am exclusively breastfeeding. We are fully established and I have never had supply issues so I am thinking that as long as I am not silly then I should be ok.

I was thinking of restricting to 750-1000 calories on FDs to start and seeing how I get on. Can I have some opinions on this please?

I know some will think I should wait until bubs is older but I am struggling to fit into any of my clothes and I am feeling really awful about myself.

Any and all advice would be most welcome.

I hope you are all well x

Maclairey · 07/12/2017 16:09

Thanks @HLBug for letting me know I posted on a dormant thread. Baby brain!

Justanothernap · 07/12/2017 17:59

Thanks all! And yay on your NSV purple

maclairey I'd definitely start with the higher allowance. I tried earlier this year when still bf'ing with 500 cal FDs (Stupidly) & it was the only time on 5/2 I felt weak/shakey. Generally not good.

Also your baby is still really tiny so I'd be as kind to yourself as possible as well. Sleepless nights & fasting are tough going!

Anyway congratulations on your baby! I was going to ask their name until I remembered that's not how anonymous Internet forums work! Hmm

quackingduck222 · 07/12/2017 18:13

Maclairey- I can’t advise on the BF calories but BCF should be along soon with advice on that.
But I wanted to say absolutely fair play to you for wanting to recommence 5:2 so soon after your little one.

No judgment here as I think it’s incredible and it’s what’s right for you and obviously as long as it’s safe for little one.

I’m starving waiting for my food to cook, 24 hour fast done minus the milk in coffees. I’m finding just one 500 cal meal enough on NFD.

I was wondering do any of you do completely no food fasts? I’m on a 5:2 fb group, I don’t post but just like reading the posts but loads of them do ridiculously long fasts eg eat at 6pm then nothing at all the next day until breakfast the day after. I always think sod that for a laugh. But loads of them do it and I was wondering what all that was about?

Maclairey · 07/12/2017 19:02

Thanks for the messages.

I really don’t have a choice but to get on with it really. I can’t get into any of my clothes and the weight I am carrying is cake weight not baby weight!

I’m not saying that there won’t be days that I will fall spectacularly off the wagon but I need to shift some lbs. 2.5 stone to be exact. But I know it’s going to take a while so I have to be prepared for that.

I have done my first FD in over a year today. I’m just about to have my dinner and I will have come in at 790 calories which isn’t bad. It has been hard though.

Does anyone drink Bovril on FDs?

Not sure I am ready to give up cake completely at this point so my NFDs might take some work later on down the line. Hoping to lose a bit before working too hard on those though!

HLBug · 07/12/2017 19:43

FD finished on about 400 calories. I have my works Christmas lunch tomorrow...it’s at a French place then drinks after. It’s going to be messy Xmas BlushWine

Glad you found us Maclairey. I’m trying to think who does breastfeeding and 5:2 at the moment - is it you @OuchBollocks?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2017 20:30

Welcome Maclairey Smile
Several women have successfully done 5:2 while EBF and also tandem BFing
With EBF, you should do 1000-cal FDs
When you move to mixed feeding, you can reduce gradually to 700 cals

Also retrain your habits on NFDs:

  • NO snacking, ever between meals Have any treats, fruit, veg, wine etc as part of a meal
  • Drink lots of water all day
  • Boost veg and beans
OP posts: