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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Carfish · 11/01/2018 07:58

Morning all. Good FD yesterday with a big crunchy apple at about 2.30pm, a lovely big mug if marmite drunk at about 6.00pm then 100gms roast chicken and a big plate of veg at 7.30pm followed by a small pear. Two teas with milk. I think that was pretty much 500 spot on and quite painless.
I only did Wednesday as bizarrely I ended up with Sunday being my first FD- doubt that will happen again as Sunday's usually very much s feast day in my family !
All power to your fasting elbows today everyone. You know it makes sense.Smile

MightyMunki · 11/01/2018 08:03

Checking in for my second FD of the week. Might try a tea to keep me going until salad at lunch.

peachypips · 11/01/2018 09:03

Well done Lamb!

Good luck with first FD Fionne. Gets easier as you go along.

Well done Wed fasters. I do Mon and Wed too and always feel very happy when I go to bed on Wed eve!

All done at 480 yesterday. Surprisingly easy to get back into it- I thought it was going to be as hard as when I first did it going back after a few weeks off.

Best wishes to Thurs fasters.

slinkyme · 11/01/2018 09:10

FD under the belt yesterday. In the end was not too bad. Best of luck to all fasters today.

HLBug · 11/01/2018 09:39

Checking in for a FD today. Went out for wine and pudding with friends last night (I had sticky toffee pudding in case anyone is wondering Smile) which has meant I’ve woken up this morning quite satisfied. Anyone else fasting today?

purpleviolet1 · 11/01/2018 11:10

FD for me too bug. Had my usual 1 weetobix to keep me going for the day and I have a kebab and salad for dinner

GrannyPenny · 11/01/2018 12:08

Oh good, a lot of company for FD today - definitely going to help.

Finding the eating earlier in the evening very difficult - it just doesn't fit in well with my daily life and on the days I do manage it I'm going to bed feeling hungry and not sleeping well. Also, evening has always been my snacking danger time, so the extra hours between eating and bedtime are challenging to the point I cracked yesterday and finished off a pack of 6-7 small (and stale) water biscuits at 1 a.m. this morning.

Quacking - well done on your run. Going to try your HIIT routine next Wednesday. My Nike app is definitely under recording though. Did a tried and tested just over 3 mile route yesterday and the app came in at 2:91. That's nearly 5% under.

BigChoc the hibiscus tea sounds .... interesting. I'll see if I can find some and give it a go.

NSV today - waist is down again, so that's 3.5cm gone and the lumpy bumpy abdominal fat looks every so slightly less lumpy bumpy.

Have a good day everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2018 12:21

Well done everyone who nailed their FDs yesterday Smile
and good luck to the Thursday fasters

I had an unplanned FD yesterday, because the canteen had sold out of the grilled fish I fancied
So, I had tuna with a teasp guacamole and a huge mixed salad with 7 different veg
I saved ¼ for a gym supper, right after my 90 mins advanced lifting class - it total;y hit the spot after our evilly hard trainer Wink

Fionne There are no set protein / carbs / fat % for FDs, because needs / preferences are so individual
The only outright rules are no booze and no junk

Low GI reduces insulin spikes and hunger, so it makes the FD a lot easier
We always recommend basing FDs on moderate protein, masses of veg and optionally a small portion of starchy carbs or oils, to fit within your FD total calories

If you want firmer FD guidelines, Mosely wrote:

  • about 40g protein is plenty to maintain muscle longterm
  • for low carb 800 cal days, stay within about 50g carbs
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2018 12:37

Congrats on your waist NSV, granny Also for you ....

AVOID with high BP
Milk thistle
Black cohosh - if you are taking some BP meds (ask your doctor)
Chondroitin
CLA
Carbonated drinks
Sodium / Salt - switch to Potassium salt as much as poss.

Foods to help high BP
Fish
Flaxseed
Garlic
Celery (excellent food for anyone, high fibre, low cal)
Watermelon (celery, watermelon, onion make a delic salad)
kiwi fruit
apple
unsweetened cranberry juice, lemon juice, beet juice
coconut water
Olive oil
Beetroot, broccoli, spinach, tomato juice
90% + cocoa choc Smile
UNsalted peanuts, pistachios

Spices to help
ginger, cinammon, black pepper, turmeric, cayenne pepper

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 11/01/2018 12:44

Granny just a word of warning the Nike app is pretty bad on HIIT. I’m finding it’s at least a few mins behind so I’m making up the distance by motioning my arms as if I’m running Grin

It don’t help it keeps pausing the work out if I grab a drink even tho I’m still going.

The issue is for my race proof they need it on that app I know I’ve done it so I’m not cheating.

Fionne · 11/01/2018 12:48

r, right after my 90 mins advanced lifting class

I think we may have something in common. I’m a crossfitter but I also do Olympic lifting.

purpleviolet1 · 11/01/2018 12:55

@GrannyPenny that's fantastic!

Fionne · 11/01/2018 12:59

% for FDs, because needs / preferences are so individual
The only outright rules are no booze and no

Sorry I just saw that and I’m glad it’s not set in stone.

Re booze and junk. I’m doing dry January and I’m now into day 5 of no sugary stuff. Junk food? Hand on heart I’m jot a junk food eater but only because I’d never give anyone the chance to say look at fatso over there getting stuck go into a burger etc. I do actually eat healthily, a Mediterranean type diet, and then I hide behind closed doors with my sugary stuff!

It’s taken a lot to admit that but maybe by owning up to it others will know they’re not alone.

Oh and I’ve decided that I’m doing the 5:2 blood sugar diet with 800 calorie es ok FD because it’s very close to how I eat anyway on the non fasting days.

My first FD is going well. I have 300 calories left and it’s late in the day here so I’m sure I’ll be fine.

HandMini · 11/01/2018 13:10

Hi fasters

For anyone who's not totally bored of me banging on about salad dressing I found two good ready made ones: Sainsbos do a low cal French dressing which is ok and Tiger Tiger Thai Red Salad Dressing is amazing. They sell it in my Asda. Am going to try adn mainly save dressed salads for NFDs but I do find they go down much better with dressing.

NFD here and I've had yoghurt for breakfast and salad for lunch.

I do Mon and Wed fast as well. It breaks the week up nicely around work too.

Carfish - your FD menu sounds lovely, I'm going to copy that next Monday. I love getting my FDs sorted in advance so I can focus on preparing the food nicely, getting the right teabags in etc.

Chia seeds anyone? Amazing superfood full of filling energy or expensive gimmick. The smallest pack available in my spermarket was a £10 tub so I couldn't quite be persuaded.

peachypips · 11/01/2018 13:47

I love weightlifting too- I do it at my local gym and got a barbell for Christmas so I can do it at home when my DH is away.

No experience with chia seeds I’m afraid!

quackingduck222 · 11/01/2018 14:14

Mini - wow that’s expensive for chia seeds are you in the uk?

I used to have them every day as I used to suffer terrible constipation on this WOE, seemed to help.

I read that they were fantastic food of woriors but I find they just get stuck in my teeth constantly.

quackingduck222 · 11/01/2018 14:28

Fionne - well done for owning up to it. I am still battling with those emotions I do it in binge form in secret.

Not done it for over 3 months now, I’ve changed my FDs around so I’m fasting the days I’m alone. Also if I’m having any junk treats I do it in front of DH as he’s the first to comment if I eat full boxes of fudge etc.

OliveBranchColins · 11/01/2018 16:44

Nfd today but I've been playing about portion sizes for breakfast and I need 2 eggs with loads of spinach and mushrooms to avoid feeling nauseatous all morning after taking my imatinib.
On the plus side I have not had lunch today as I did double playground duty to cover a colleague at lunch and I am happy to wait till dinner to eat again, so it will definitely work on FDs.

GrannyPenny · 11/01/2018 18:26

FD so far so good. Out at evening class soon so have had a small chicken, avocado and tomato salad. Omlette planned for when I get back.

HandMini - never bothered much with superfood seeds myself - like Quacking I find small seeds stick in my teeth. Also I'm not too sure how much of the goodness can actually be absorbed unless they're meticulously chewed or perhaps ground up?

CroakingCrocus · 11/01/2018 19:43

How do people use chia seeds? I've got a big bag from Amazon and have made several puddings with different types of plant milk and vanilla or cocoa. It's nice but I'd like to try them in more things.

2nd FD of the week. Had a feta omelette with a bit of baked salmon. Usually I aim to eat lots of veggies on a FD but that didn't happen today. Dinner was thrown together really quickly when I got home from work as I was very hungry.

HLBug · 11/01/2018 19:49

FD closing on about 550 kcals. Phew.

purpleviolet1 · 11/01/2018 20:11

FD failure here. Got greedy

Tomorrow is another day

quackingduck222 · 11/01/2018 20:23

Croaking I blend mine with mixed berry’s percillan (sp) husks milk and a protein powder as a pre / post work out.

Purple as you said tomorrow is another day and there is 3 more days left of the week.

I’m aiming to fast Sunday, this can sometimes go wrong as my dh quite often brings takeaway but he’s on strict instructions not to this month as I am determined to get to my target by end of feb. I’ve been saving up and will have a nice shopping trip once I have.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2018 20:55

I get 1 kg bags for €11.90 from Amazon. Small bags, to try, are much cheaper
Genuinely worth trying - packed with nutrients.

I always mix a tbsp chia seeds with my porridge.
Gives it a lovely texture and makes it very filling
It soaks up the liquid, so you need to add more (I use nut milk) and drink a glass of water too

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2018 21:00

Also makes a quick & very easy breakfast or pud
Just add vanilla, cinnamon etc, water and leave overnight on the frig

I left a couple of chia seed recipes on the FD recipes thread

OP posts:
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