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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
questions2008 · 08/01/2018 19:48

Thanks for the tips BCF - I wasn't having a FD today but so far have eaten 1000 cals and am not hungry so I guess I'm stopping there. My goal weight tdee is 1480 cals (55kg) so I'll try to bump it up as you'd suggested on a day, perhaps when I've done a lot of walking.

You're totally right about habits and sustainability, I don't mean to start a crash diet when I start but eventually (so far) something comes along to stop me and I lose the plot. Working on that! Smile

Iamblossom · 08/01/2018 19:52

Evening all.

I posted here a lot a year or so ago, lost about a stone on 5:2, was religious about it. A stone was too much, put 7 pounds back on which was perfect and basically stayed there doing 6:1.

Kidded myself I could stop altogether and just do low calorie, as I also exercise a lot. But have found myself basically back at my starting weight so here I go again!

First proper fast day for months today, kitchen closed at 497, I am super proud of myself and feel back in the zone. Grin

Iamblossom · 08/01/2018 19:54

Today:

Nothing till 3pm when I had two hard boiled eggs

Prawns with salad bits and a 0% Greek yoghurt for tea

Options hot choc

quackingduck222 · 08/01/2018 20:54

Fantastic Purple, Peachy, slinky, best & Blossom.

Welcome to the newbies and returners. Blossom I’m sure I remember you from last year or year before that’s if you’ve not name changed and Ive not confused you with someone with a similar name.

My family are having a late pudding so Ive sloped off to the kitchen so I don’t have to smell them eating it. DH ran 20+ Miles today so I will let him off this once Grin

TalkinPeace · 08/01/2018 21:05

To much food today
much too much fizzy wine
but its my wonderful DH's birthday (together since 1984) so ha ha

and that is the cool thing about 5:2
every day is a fresh start

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2018 21:23

Happy Birthday to MrTip Thanks

Well done, Monday fasters
Have a glass of water, then clean your teeth to remove the temptation to nibble
Try to have an early night, to maximise fasting benefits with a good sleep

OP posts:
Bestbees · 08/01/2018 21:34

Happy Birthday MrTIp. Have a wonderful celebration!

HandMini · 08/01/2018 21:35

Well done Monday FDers.

My kitchen is now closed (once I’ve made a mint tea!!).

Managed to power through on black tea in the day and had a tuna, chickpea salad for supper.

Probably went a bit over 500 as I put quite a lot of oil on the salad.

Any tips for low-cal salad dressing? I love plain oil and vinegar (not creamy dressings) but aware that I can rack up some serious calories on olive oil alone....

GrannyPenny · 08/01/2018 22:02

Hello to all new and returning 5:2ers and well done all Monday fasters.

NFD here today. Goals were/are no snacking; evening run. Both boxes ticked, so far so good. Quacking - there was I thinking my 4.9 miles was good and then I see your DH did 20+ miles! Is he marathon training?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2018 22:42

Well done on nailing your goals for the day, granny
Your capability builds up over the weeks, then suddenly you realise how much you have improved

OP posts:
Bestbees · 09/01/2018 07:19

Goals for today: no snacking and swim and yoga. If really hungry in evening (dinner 5.30 then fd tomorrow) will have cheese on crackers and a piece of fruit as a mini meal. Have given up bread and sugar for january so breakfast was spinach and tomato omlette followed by grapes. Lunch is sardine salad and an apple. Dinner cashew stirfry with spinach noodles.

Good luck any fasters today!

HLBug · 09/01/2018 07:36

Checking in for my FD today Smile

Fionne · 09/01/2018 07:49

Good morning everyone. Smile

I hope you're all happy with how things are going for you.

I went to bed last night with about 800 calories to spare. I just couldnt eat them and I really thought I'd wake up starving today but it was in fact the very opposite. I was up at my usual 5.30 am and I didnt have anything to eat until 9.45 though I did have a cuppa about 7.15am. I didn't feel that I wanted to eat.

As usual I took my grandson to school then my other daughter called and said could you take DG to the polyclinic and thats when I would normally have stated to panic if had previously left home without breakfast - but this time I didnt. So off we went to the clinic and I still didnt feel hungry but more to the point I still wasnt panicking about not having eaten. After the Drs I took her for some hot chocolate and I realised my eyes werent focusing very well and I thought aha, I need to eat, so I picked up a banana that was in a basket on the counter and had that. The look on the baristas face was priceless but within minutes I felt better, especially after I had the milky coffee as well.

Its been a good morning, I feel like I've learned quite a bit.

Oh and breakfast when I got home was an mushroom omelette and a pear. Im feeling very full. Im also feeling a bit headachey now and have come to bed for an hour with some water and parasol. I think the no sweeties or biscuits for two days now must be causing it.

quackingduck222 · 09/01/2018 07:52

Wow well done granny 4.2 miles is loads. And it was bitter cold yesterday.
Yes he’s got a marathon this weekend.

Good luck to Bees & bug on your fast day.

OliveBranchColins · 09/01/2018 08:08

Hi just checking in for my 1st FD back, it should be OK off to work now in a minute with a lovely salad for lunch. If it all goes to plan will finish at 519.

peachypips · 09/01/2018 09:49

Morning all- your meals all sound delicious.

Successful day yesterday and feel back in the swing. Weighed this morn out of curiosity and dropped three pounds but am aware that’s water. So 12st 4 today. Will do my proper first weigh in on Thurs morning after second fast day then will weigh every other week.

Planning a brisk walk at lunchtime in my lunch hour.

Re NFDs- is it ok to skip breakfast on a NFD and have your first meal as lunch?

quackingduck222 · 09/01/2018 10:49

Peachy - yes that’s fine to skip breakfast if you don’t want it. I think quite a few of us skip breakfast dont we?

I feel really happy today. This WAE and the anti aging properties must be working as I’ve just been IDed in the supermarket. The check out operator would not take my word I’m actually in my 30s and I got refused my DHs beer. Grin

GrannyPenny · 09/01/2018 12:06

That's funny about being ID'd quacking - I just booked an eye test and was told now that I had reached a 'certain age' I qualified for a free eye test. Yay.

Just back from the gym so first goal for today ticked off. Other than that, no snacking and eat within TDEE.

Another one here who rarely eats breakfast.

Fionne - hurrah for the good days! For me it came as quite a surprise how much of a mental challenge the feeling of hunger can be. It used to be quite common for me to eat a large evening meal, and then an hour later have sandwiches because I still felt hungry. Once I started to MFP and so had in front of me how many calories I had eaten, I realised I couldn't possibly still be hungry. Now I fill up with a pot of herb tea (or two). I also always carry a bottle of water with me when I'm out and about.

Have a good day everyone!

MightyMunki · 09/01/2018 13:24

Checking in, first FD of the week, finished yesterday at around 1100cals,

Have had a black coffee so far, and planning a prawn salad for lunch, with chicken and slow cooked veggies for dinner.

TalkinPeace · 09/01/2018 15:58

handmini
Any tips for low-cal salad dressing? I love plain oil and vinegar ... but aware that I can rack up some serious calories on olive oil alone....
The secret is the same as with many foods - high flavour ....
Add some capers to your salad and then have a flavoured oil - eg chilli - as then a teeny bit of dressing will go a very long way

TalkinPeace · 09/01/2018 15:59

peachypips
Re NFDs- is it ok to skip breakfast on a NFD and have your first meal as lunch?
Otherwise known as 16:8 - lots of us do it every day, even when being a bit half arsed about fasting

peachypips · 09/01/2018 18:15

Just wondered as I fasted yesterday then didn’t eat anything today until 1pm so was concerned I’d left too big a gap.

Thank you!

HandMini · 09/01/2018 19:21

Thanks Talkin’. I have some truffle oil and some chilli oil.

Also I love picked onions so sometimes I chop some of those up for extra punch.

NFD here and managed to avoid carbs and sugar and NO SNACKING!! I MUST NOT SNACK - it is always my downfall!

Grin
TalkinPeace · 09/01/2018 19:45

Ooh, the tiny Lidl pickled onions chopped into a salad - bliss !

But yes, its about making flavours stronger so you eat more slowly so your grehlin response has time to tell you to stop when sated rather than stuffed.

and indeed NO SNACKING
at least certainly while you have a reserve of 10,000 calories sitting across the back of your hips Wink

HLBug · 09/01/2018 19:50

FD done at about 550kcals. I have been a tired, grumpy, miserable cow all day Angry Roll on tomorrow...