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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2018 13:55

Good progress on your 1st FD, oddsocks
Yes, keeping busy, even mentally, helps reduce thoughts of hunger

OP posts:
Wristy · 06/01/2018 17:01

Wow, thanks BigChocFrenzy. There is about a 300 calorie difference between my current TDEE and my goal so I’ll bare that in mind as I progress.

I’ve just gotten into a bad habit of eating big meals and then snacks too so I’ve got two separate issues to tackle!

quackingduck222 · 06/01/2018 18:08

How are you getting on today oddsocks?

I’ve decided HIT running is for me. Burt’s of 30 seconds fast and 30 seconds very slow jog or very big stride brisk walk worked very well. Took about the same amount of time as a medium effort run but the time absolutely flew by and stopped me getting bored and wanting to give in.

I’ve done 7.5 Miles this week, 7.5 more miles than I did sat on my bum last week. Grin

Given myself the day off tomorrow.

How’s everyone else’s Saturday?

Justanothernap · 06/01/2018 19:12

Yes quacking & granny I've had mostly interest but some people aghast at only 500 cals a day. I lack the patience to convert & the quick tongue to shut them up. I go for ignoring mostly!

granny yes proper clothes makes sense. I don't have much work out gear as only do one pilates class a week. Maybe time to invest. Or you know, stop making excuses!

Snack wise I almost absentmindedly ate some chocolate with my afternoon cup of tea as managed a double nap (the toddler & baby co-operated today, a rarity). It's so automatic to celebrate with a treat. Or commiserate with a treat.. and so on.

Anyway hello to fionne slinky & wristy hope you find 5/2 suits you. The bit quacking posted earlier & pretty much everything BCF and TIP posts will see you right.

GrannyPenny · 06/01/2018 19:18

Well done on the run Quacking. 7.5 miles is a great achievement.

This morning's exercise class was tough - it's the one I hate the most so the one I should probably stick with. There was so much I couldn't do, even with 1kg weights so on the plus side plenty of scope to see improvement.

Today's goal of no snacking still intact and this evening's planned evening meal should bring me in within TDEE.

Fionne · 06/01/2018 19:23

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I had confused myself about the 12 week program I mentioned but I didn't realise till my son in law told me I was about to sign up for the blood sugar diet - 12 weeks of 800 calories a day. This is it and I think Ive been saved from a fate worse than death. Grin

thebloodsugardiet.com/12-week-online-program/

Im going to take a few days to read through some old threads and take stock of whats been said here because Im actually feeling quite confused, and to be honest coming back to this thread took a bit of doing because Im feeling quite panicky about it all.

I need to kick my own backside.

Fionne · 06/01/2018 19:24

Sorry - about excercise. I do Crossfit.

TalkinPeace · 06/01/2018 19:29

fionne
THe blood sugar diet has its place, but our way of eating is more sustainable Grin

quackingduck222 · 06/01/2018 20:07

Just another - Great job on the no snacking. It’s easily done to accidentally eat things especially with kids left overs / cooking.

Granny - great job on your fitness class!

Fionne - Glad you’ve been saved from that, not that BSD isn’t good as I think it is but it’s hard. And also the same as this free, no subscription needed. I’ve done it, I’m actually doing a week on it now. I’ve not even read the book. All the information is readily available online.

Just remember on your fast days it’s as simple as 500 cals. Measure out your food calculate it and off you go. Veggies are a fantastic way to bulk out your meals and make them go further for little calories.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2018 20:52

Well done on your run, duck

Fionne You need to chill and just do 5:2

5:2 is very simple:
Choose 2 days to eat 500 cals, the other 5 days are "maintenance" days when you eat about TDEE
The "How to Start" section of the OP adds more detail ho to do this

Forget the BSD
The BSD 800 cals daily low carb was intended for those needing to reverse T2/preT2
It is very tough and restrictive, so I don't recommend it for anyone who just needs to lose weight and tends to stress about it.

Also, the BSD is only for 8 weeks and won't teach you how to eat for the rest of your life
whereas 5:2 trains you on the NFDs how to eat "normally" and helps good longterm habits

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 06/01/2018 21:06

Yep exactly what BCF said, BSD teaches you nothing about long term maintenance.

You said in your post re willpower, this if definitely the way to go for you! Just 2 days out of 5. Instead of 7 being miserable and watching everything you eat calorie counting.

BCF - Can I ask why your story isn’t on the fabulous 5:2 inspirational thread?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2018 21:30

duck My story is early on the Inspirations thread
I've added a couple of brief updates
Next major update probably in July, when I hit 62

OP posts:
HLBug · 06/01/2018 22:02

My goodness everyone seems to be doing so well - and putting my lack of exercise to shame! Seriously though, great job to all those who have been pushing themselves to do more, it really is very motivating.

I’ve had friends visiting this weekend so have been enjoying my full TDEE very much. Food choices haven’t been that great, but feeling able to have a few days to relax once in a while is exactly why I love 5:2. I’ll have a mini FD tomorrow which will bring me back in check.

HLBug · 06/01/2018 22:06

Oh and I’ve decided to completely ditch Diet Coke - all remaining cans have been banished to the shed and will only come out for visitors. Thanks again BCF for sharing all that info a few days ago. I had dinner out last night and had a lemonade as my ‘treat’ fizzy drink instead. More calories but worth it if means treating my body better overall.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2018 22:29

Good move to ditch coke, bug
Sprite Zero has Sucralose & no cals or caffeine. Any diet lemonade would be no worse than sugar, imo and without the cals
It is coke / Pepsi which is the absolute worst fizz, because of its combination of crap.

If you choose to invest a few cals, then a small glass of wine is a healthy choice, if it is your only one that day.

OP posts:
Justanothernap · 06/01/2018 22:39

Hang in there fionne nothing wrong with lurking for a bit til you're ready to jump in Smile

slinkyme · 06/01/2018 23:33

Finished the 3rd fast of the week on slightly over 500 cals. Phew. Looking forward to enjoying the final holiday tomorrow before being back at work on Monday. All of you doing all this superb exercise is definitely motivating me. Tomorrow or Monday I definitely will give HIIT a go. Good nite.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2018 00:14

Well done on nailing your FD, slinky

OP posts:
Fionne · 07/01/2018 02:31

Forget the BSD
The BSD 800 cals daily low carb was intended for those needing to reverse T2/preT2
It is very tough and restrictive, so I don't recommend it for anyone who just needs to lose weight and tends to stress about it.

Id already decided not to do it after my son in law had looked at it and said it wasn't advisable, and yes thats exactly what I was looking to try and do - reverse my preT2. Im sure the 5:2, which is what I was looking for, will get me sorted out.

You said in your post re willpower, this if definitely the way to go for you! Just 2 days out of 5. Instead of 7 being miserable and watching everything you eat calorie counting

Im allowed 2200 calories on TDEE days which has really surprised me. Smile

Hang in there fionne nothing wrong with lurking for a bit til you're ready to jump in smile

Thank you [ smile] Im menu planning today and I plan to start on Tuesday. Im going to do Thursdays and Sundays as my FD's because of where I live and how our weekends fall.

Oddsocks15 · 07/01/2018 08:25

Quacking I’m doing ok thanks, first FD went okay, felt fine, kept busy cleaning! Joy! Didn’t miss breakfast at all as I thought I would as im a breakfast addict!

Lost 4lb this week Grin

Thanks for yours and everyone’s support this week, now to keep going!

quackingduck222 · 07/01/2018 10:24

That’s great oddsocks. I spend my days cleaning on a FD I find it makes the days go quicker and less time thinking about food.

Fionne - jealous of your TDEE, you will do great on this honestly. If you post on FDs it gives you the encouragement.

Slinky - 3 FDs is fabulous, looking forward to your weigh in and seeing how well you’ve done.

quackingduck222 · 07/01/2018 10:28

And BCF, that’s fantastic I just cannot believe it. Obviously from this thread we don’t usually know each other’s ages but you would never guess your age. You are so fit and just well inspirational.

Have you always been so active?

WhiteWinterWitch · 07/01/2018 11:17

Good morning everyone, I've been totally off the 5:2 wagon for a long while now so I'm going to have my first FD tomorrow. Will weigh and measure tomorrow morning but will get food prepared today. I've also kicked the alcohol habit ( well today is day 1 of being dry, it is becoming a problem so need to take action now, and 5:2 has really helped keep me on the straight and narrow in the past) have opened my fitness pal account and I'm going to work out my TDEE for my non fds. Actually looking forward to being back on the 5:2 train again.

slinkyme · 07/01/2018 11:55

Welcome white winter. I finally have learned how to bold in posts. Lots of support here and lots doing this with you.

Well after a weigh in today I have lost 2kg in 3 fasts this week. So that is about 4.4 pounds I think. Most of this was after the first fast. I don't pay too much attention to individual weigh ins. I weigh myself every day as bizarrely I like to see how weight fluctuates. And because I know it fluctuates so much I don't take each individual weigh in too seriously as it is just a point in time. However seeing the overall drop in the Mfp graphs is very satisfying as I can see myself heading in the right direction .

I am also TOM over the next few days so know that I am somewhat bloated right now.

Eating day today and don't feel like eating any of the goodies I was craving yesterday. However will enjoy a lovely home made Sunday roast today.

Best of luck to all fasters today and I will be back tomorrow.

quackingduck222 · 07/01/2018 12:14

Slinky that’s absolutely fantastic!

I’m a daily weigher too. I like to know what’s going on but I only actually log it on my official weigh in day. I find it keeps me in check but I don’t take it too seriously as it constantly fluctuates. Exactly what you said basically Grin Fascinating tho!

Are you going to continue with 3 FD per week?

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