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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2017 18:07

Oh, poor bug Flowers I'm so sorry

Warm up chicken soup with 30-40 cloves of garlic - it fights off colds & vampires too
Keep drinking water, stay warm and have an early night

Happy Christmas to all 5:2ers Xmas Smile

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 24/12/2017 18:32

Merry Christmas bcf, thanks for all your wisdom and support this year. I suspect I would be rather fatter than I am now without it Xmas Smile

Mrstumbletap · 24/12/2017 19:28

30/40 Cloves of garlic? Blimey that's a lot!

Ta1kinPeace · 24/12/2017 19:55

Mrstumble
It seems a lot but it is indeed yummy : there is a fab recipe called "chicken with 40 cloves of garlic" and it is so so good - not harsh all

quackingduck222 · 25/12/2017 07:00

Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you all have a fantastic day.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/12/2017 10:20

Have a great day everyone Xmas Grin

Being totally perverse, I rather fancy an FD today Xmas Grin to give my tum a rest after a very greedy week

OP posts:
HLBug · 25/12/2017 18:19

Merry Christmas everyone Xmas Smile I hope you’ve all had lovely luxurious days full of yummy food and presents!

purpleviolet1 · 26/12/2017 14:28

I was up to 9st11 yesterday morning but today I wAs 9st 13! Time to curb it in. Got lots of food leftover but until that's gone it's difficult to return to healthy. I've just had some pilau rice and chickpea in yogurt (Chana chaat). Feel bloated.

What's the most one can gain in 6 days?? I was 9st 10 on the 21st.

OuchBollocks · 26/12/2017 14:36

Its (Mostly) undigested food and water weight purple, I 'gained' 5lb in 10 days but it was all gone within a week once I sorted myself out a bit.

FD tomorrow. MIL is hosting a buffet today so it would be rude not to Merry-make a little longer.

Ta1kinPeace · 26/12/2017 17:09

purple
A few years back I gained 9 pounds in ten days and lost the whole lot in two weeks
New York deli meals were worth it !!

purpleviolet1 · 26/12/2017 20:04

Ouch I'll do an FD with you tomorrow.. it helps to have a buddy!

Thanks talking!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/12/2017 22:03

I hope everyone had a wonderful day Xmas Smile

Don't worry, Christmas bloat is mostly water and can be zapped quite quickly if you resume FDs promptly in the New Year
Just don't put off the FDs any longer, or that gain can quickly become permanent and increase.

I enjoyed my Christmas Day miniFD;
some cashews whispered enchantingly in my ear, so it was 800-900 cals instead of an FD

This morning, I did 90 mins fasted Boxing Day spin and 15 mins heavy leg lifts, so a longer fast until a late lunch

OP posts:
HLBug · 27/12/2017 09:17

I was so full yesterday (Boxing Day) I did an accidental FD without realising it! Had turkey left overs for tea and that was all for the day. I'm still not overly hungry today, so maybe this blasted cold is good for something after all Xmas Hmm

quackingduck222 · 27/12/2017 10:38

Hope everyone had a fantastic Xmas.

I’m looking forward to my FD tomorrow, feel I need it. I just feel uncomfortable and tired and that’s not like me.

Ate lots Xmas day, doesn’t help we had a early dinner. I’m just not used to it anymore.

Yesterday we didn’t eat until 6 so it could of been a lot worse. Ended up with a 2nd Xmas dinner as we had so much leftover.

We could of been better but on the other could of been worse.

purpleviolet1 · 27/12/2017 17:47

FD done! Around 500 cals so pleased with that. Just got to brush my teeth and not go for anything else!

purpleviolet1 · 27/12/2017 17:50

Next FD is Friday

HLBug · 27/12/2017 19:51

Well done purple - I had a 1000 kcal mini today in preparation for a day out shopping and eat tomorrow guilt free.

quackingduck222 · 27/12/2017 20:08

Well done Bug & Purple that’s so great, it’s so easy to get carried away and keep putting the fasts off.

I’m definitely fasting tomorrow. I didn’t get my 2 fasts in last week but I will this week.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 22:06

Well done, purple, bug

Stay well everyone and especially try to avoid the horrid novo that I gather is sweeping the country.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 28/12/2017 09:26

9 stone 10 lbs exactly this morning! Grin but I'm not sure if the scales are working as I was 9 stone 10.5lbs yesterday morning but even though it was a FD, i weighed at the end of the day and I was 9 stone 12lbs Confused

TOTM approaching though so think I've got water retention

purpleviolet1 · 28/12/2017 09:30

P.s I don't usually weigh twice I was just testing the scales...

quackingduck222 · 28/12/2017 10:04

FD here today, I need it as I’ve gained 4 lbs this week.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/12/2017 10:11

purple Scales sound ok.
Even on an FD, you'll probably be heavier in the evening,
because you'll be eating, even though it is reduced and your bod won't hav digested it and excreted the remains

On an NFD, you would find more difference, a few lb is not unusual.

Weight varies naturally from fday to day

That is why I keep reminding wrt scales:

  • Look at the trend over at least 2-3 weeks, because even the weekly value can vary enough to hide a 1-2 lb fat loss
  • To accurately monitor weight, weigh at exactly the same time, under exactly the same conditions, no more than once per week (fine to weigh more often, so long as you look at the trends over 2-3 weeks)
  • Don't obsess over blips or count fractions of a pound. It'll do your head in Your body is not a computer; within about a 5lb weight range , it is a random number generator. Xmas Wink
OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 28/12/2017 10:49

Yesterday was a peaceful day - no booze and little food.
Ready for the onslaught to restart now Grin

Justanothernap · 28/12/2017 12:57

Hope you all had a good Christmas & that your feeling better bug

It sounds like you've all been so good. I've spectacularly crashed off the wagon... I was intending no FDs but reduced snacking & vague calorie counting to keep an eye on things... nope. I've eaten all of the food. All of it.

So going to do a FD tomos & stay away from the scales for a bit. I fell back into bad habits so easily Blush. Not even enjoying eating anymore but struggling to be sensible.