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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
GrannyPenny · 28/12/2017 13:04

Returning like the proverbial bad penny (hence the name change) to wish everyone a happy xmas - and dip my toe back into the 5:2 water.

From reading posts it sounds like you all managed much better self control than I did this past week.

Anyway, whats eaten is eaten. I like to get my 'things need to change' in before the new year, so it's not a new year's resolution, but there is so much wrong with my diet at the moment (mainly my sugar addiction) that it seems a bit daunting. My saving grace has been that I gradually upped my exercise during 2017 so I am finishing the year fitter and lighter than the beginning, so that's a good positive. My weight is up 3kg but alas, it is all hanging round my waist again and needs to be gone.

I know what I need to do. I know it works. But I'll dive straight in with the excuses anyway.

Our xmas visitors are gone but we have more coming later and the last of them will be staying until 7 January so implementing proper FDs will be difficult. After that I'll only have to deal with my OH who shows his scepticism by raising his eyebrows so high they make him look like he has a hairline again.

So immediate plan of action is (a) implementation of rule 1 forthwith - no snacking - and (b) in place of FDs whist visitors are here I'll do 'one meal only' days - as long as we all eat together in the evening they won't notice.

Now I need to get my act into gear, get 6 sets of bedding washed and the place cleaned from top to bottom. Should burn off a few calories.

quackingduck222 · 28/12/2017 15:48

I don’t know about that, I wouldn’t say I’ve been good but I could of been worse.

Apart from Xmas day I’ve not eaten until 6pm to do a bit of damage limitation but what I have eaten hasn’t been great. 3 portions of pudding yesterday. Large portions I should probably add.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/12/2017 19:43

Well done on a good break yesterday, tip

Welcome back, granny and good luck
Rule #1 is great as a lifetime habit
Rule #2 is very useful for social occasions

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 28/12/2017 21:58

Whose with me for an FD tomorrow?

purpleviolet1 · 29/12/2017 09:08

1 Weetobix for breakfast and probably omelette with veg tonight

Justanothernap · 29/12/2017 10:02

I'm on for a FD purple just tea until dinner. Haven't decided what that is yet.. something egg based probably.

GrannyPenny · 29/12/2017 12:01

Yesterday turned accidentally into a 1 meal day, so good practice for the next 10 days of visitors. Surprising how low cal a cooked roast meal can come in at when you substitute small baked potato for the roasties. Not sure the half tub of ice cream afterwards was the best choice for my waist .... I have a mug which says "I can't sleep if there's a cream cake in the fridge" which sums me up perfectly. Anyway, eaten as part of a meal and no snacking. I'll bank that as a positive.

Goal for today is no snacks.

Good luck on your FD Purple and Just.

purpleviolet1 · 29/12/2017 12:49

Unfortunately dh has finished the eggs and bread..

So have to find something else to have tonight now!

Does a tea count as a snack? Or can you have unlimited teas at any hour (I know the milk needs to be measured and taken into account)

BigChocFrenzy · 29/12/2017 14:19

purple I have unsweetened herbal tea without milk, FDs and NFDs
However, if tea with milk helps make FDs sustainable for you, then go for it

This WOE is not about perfection, but about doing your best over the longterm and making compromises when helpful.
Like almost everyone here, I have a few vices I'm not giving up Xmas Grin < seals lips >

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 29/12/2017 15:01

BCF I rarely drink tea, but for some reason I often seem to fancy it on TOTM. That's the only time you'll see me with a cup!

purpleviolet1 · 29/12/2017 19:16

Unfortunately I ended up having a rubbish meal and finished up on approx 700 calories Sad

Tomorrow is a new day!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 00:26

That's pretty good, purple I'd count 700 as an FD, certainly during this feasting holiday

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 01:16

well done too for exercising - I just replied to you on 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 30/12/2017 09:53

700 intake still means a very good calorie deficit Purple so i'd take that as a positive.

Relies left very late yesterday "to avoid traffic" so we were late going out to our own do. Managed to steer clear of mindlessly dipping my hand into the snack bowls but did have several large slice of pizza washed down with a couple of glasses of wine.

MFPd it when I got home and just snuck in on TDEE. Strange thing is, despite eating plenty have woken up today feeling ravenous and my tummy is seriously rumbling. Is this the result of a very carb heavy meal the evening before?

Leaving to pick up next lot of visitors in half an hour. Roll on 7 January when we get the house back to ourselves.

My goals for today - (1) No snacking (2) Get a run in.

Have a good Saturday everyone!

MazDazzle · 30/12/2017 10:05

I agree purple, 700 calories at this time of the year is a decent FD.

I’m fasting today for the first time in a week and I’m going to try really hard to drink more water!

Is anyone else planning on a FD today? Enjoy your weekend everyone.

purpleviolet1 · 30/12/2017 10:15

Have to report back with Sv! 9 st 8.9lbs. Lowest since starting 5:2 GrinGrinGrin TOTM though so aware that it could creep up loads with the water retention.

My TDEE is only 1500 so I only have a deficit of 2000 cals a week if I have two 500 FD's

quackingduck222 · 30/12/2017 11:36

Well done purple and everyone else who has managed a FD.

I have been unsuccessful so far, I think it’s the crap that’s left is calling me. It dont help that we are having later nights either.

I’m 3lbs up, we have a nice dinner planned NYE then we have decided to get back on track NYD with fasting and being really good on the NFD. DH has got a marathon coming up in just over 2 weeks so he wants to stop the treats and concentrate on food and fitness.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 12:02

Well done on your SV, purple

Reminders from exercise thread:

  • Go slowly with wxercise, because you are building up from not feeling very healthy or strong
  • Have a rest day after each training day, until you are fitter
  • Plan each day to get 8hrs sleep each night
  • Keep drinking water - aim for 2l (fizzy crap doesn't count towards this, whether with sugar or artificial sweeteners)
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 12:06

duck Very few people can lose at this time of year
Maintenance is a really good Xmas/ NY NSV, but also good if you can hold down gain to under 5 lb and resume fasting in the first week of 2018

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 30/12/2017 12:13

BCF - I had hoped to maintain but that’s gone out the window unfortunately. I’ve still been weighing in daily so I am more mindful about what’s happening.

I’m just very aware that last year I didn’t weigh myself and what was a xmas treat turned into a 3 month eat what you want feast.

I am determined that 2018 will be my year. Will pop over to the 5:2 exercise thread New Year’s Day.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 12:15

granny Any heavy meal late evening - especially a carby one - tends to cause an insulin spike the next morning
Hence the hunger. Quite usual.

If possible, make a late lunch your heaviest meal, also the meal where you have your treats and most of your booze
No snacking during the day - they keeps insulin levels / hunger raised most of the time

At supper, especially before an FD:

  • try to finish supper by latest 8pm
  • keep starchy carb portions sensible - 1/3 of the plate each for protein / veg / carbs, more veg is better
  • avoid junk or sugary crap
  • alcohol - no more than one drink with supper.
  • avoid fruit juice and dried fruit then, because of sugar spike.
OP posts:
HLBug · 30/12/2017 14:00

I’m on for a FD today. My parents have just left (Xmas Grin) and DH is off to the pub this afternoon so it’s just me and the kids. LOADS of smoked salmon which needs eaten so I’ll have some of that later with eggs. We had a chippy tea last night and have an Indian planned for tomorrow night. It’s never ending!

HLBug · 30/12/2017 18:08

382 kcals and I’m done. That feels much better.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2017 18:26

Excellent FD, bug especially over the feasting season

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 30/12/2017 18:36

That's great bug! Grin well done