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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Justanothernap · 21/12/2017 23:34

Agh! excuse the grammatical errors. I'm tired! Blush I should really go to bed.

purpleviolet1 · 22/12/2017 07:16

Thanks all 😁

Is everyone following the rule of no snacking if they are not fasting over the hols?

Justanothernap · 22/12/2017 08:02

Oh, I don't understand my body.. 10'13 to 10'8 to 10'11. I've de-wooshed Sad. Should have known it was too good to be true.

Oh well - still having my week off & will start with renewed energy in Jan. Just have to resist commiserating by eating the entire Christmas food shop....

Ps. Snacking wise I won't snack apart from Xmas & Boxing Day when all bets are off.

quackingduck222 · 22/12/2017 10:29

Purple the snacking is a good question. I’m personally taking the 3 days off over Xmas.
I think I will try and stick to it as best as possible but know it will be hard with the extra snacks about and chocs that I would normally have.

I broke the rule last night, large meal but hour after I fancied mince pies and thought so I have them now or do a NFD tomorrow just so I can have them. I had them last night and decided to get it over with so I could fast today. I originally had it down to fast Saturday as was going to have a few drinks last night but didn’t.

Just another how long is that over? Do you weigh everyday?

Ta1kinPeace · 22/12/2017 13:10

If I have a snacking session (mince pies, sausage rolls, sundry pastries washed down with whatever) I skip a meal to compensate.
I also try actively not to graze
ie food is never left out in the kitchen.
Get it out .... eat ..... put it away
and then there are less paw prints on everything from the cats

I do not own a set of scales - I use the boditrax machine at my gym. It gives me the bad news Xmas Grin

HLBug · 22/12/2017 13:42

Anyone else fasting today? quacking you're exactly right, it's like the calm before the storm at the moment!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2017 14:10

I recommend no snacking between meals, whatever else you do.
So, leave at least 4 hrs calorie-free between meals.

You could have mince pies & chocs etc as your pud, i.e. part of a meal, not a snack.
Or as tip suggests, you could put some treats together to make one of your meals

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2017 14:18

Don't worry, Just
Your whoosh before was probably the empty fat cells releasing water
The slight gain is likely just regaining the water - maybe after enjoying extra Christmas carby treats

Don't weigh during the hols - especially not if it risks sabotage - but weigh the morning of your 1st FD back
then you'll probably see much of the gain whoosh away, after a week with 2 FDs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2017 14:18

I've found too much delic food here for FDs this hols < bins usual Xmas plan of ADF ! >

Instead, I try to have have a long fast each day, at least 16 hours.
Just about to enjoy a delic meal now, after a 20 hour fast
and I trained at the gym this morning

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 22/12/2017 15:11

bins usual Xmas plan of ADF !
Xmas Grin
My kids are baking multiple puff pastry bits - they will need to be "tested" later Xmas Wink

purpleviolet1 · 22/12/2017 16:22

FD for me tomorrow I think! Had a sneaky truffle for a snack. MyFitnessPal tells me they are 300 calories each!

quackingduck222 · 22/12/2017 18:02

Purple how big was the truffle ye God’s 300cals. I think MFP is lying on that.

FD abandoned here until tomorrow as I completely forgot my home delivery is coming tomorrow with FD supplies. Otherwise it would of been a plain omelette for me.

It was originally in my diary for tomorrow and I think that’s why as I was planning in advance at the time (nothing to do with the fact I should of been hung over today) Grin

I’m not tho and will abstain from all alcohol until Xmas day.

purpleviolet1 · 22/12/2017 18:19

It was 60g (because I cut my finger quite badly and after making the mixture, I realised I couldn't shape them so used an ice cream scoop Grin). I didn't input my own recipe, just found one that said home made chocolate truffles and changed serving size to 60g!

Oh good we can fast tomorrow together! Always glad to have a buddy.

Justanothernap · 22/12/2017 20:14

I weigh once a week quacking but I think end of totm & the way I scheduled FDs might have had something to do with it (and maybe some festive food, just maybe Wink).

Anyway thanks for reassurance BCF I've decided to look at it as a 1lb off a week rather than 5 off 3 on. As I'm happy with that rate anyway. Plus in around 2 months I'm still 10lb down. Not letting a blip ruin my day!

Good luck for tomorrow those fasting Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2017 21:24

10lb in 2 month is a decent rate, about the longterm average just, especially considering festive indulgences
No more weighing until your next FD - just note that date in your calendar and stick to it

OP posts:
Mrstumbletap · 23/12/2017 10:31

I'm going to fast today and just have a small dinner this eve.
The house is full of too much bad food arrghh it's hard, but I'm going to try and not gain too much over Xmas.

Good advice on the not weighing over Xmas.

purpleviolet1 · 23/12/2017 14:45

I'm just having a mini FD I think today. Only had a truffle so far today (last one thankfully) as we needed space in the fridge. Planning an omelette tonight

OuchBollocks · 23/12/2017 15:48

I was going to have a bonus fast today but took the kids for a massive long walk round a country park then ate cheesy chips in the cafe instead Blush

HLBug · 23/12/2017 16:11

DHs birthday today so we’ve been out for a B.I.G. lunch. I skipped the booze and only had small piece of cake for pudding so could’ve been much worse. Skipped breakfast this morning and will skip dinner tonight so hopefully I’ll be round about TDEE for today despite the celebrations.

TiP If it wasn’t my husbands birthday I would’ve skipped the cake altogether - my son ‘helped’ blow out the candles and all I could think about was your post from a few weeks/months ago about the spray of spit and germs that probably accompanied the chocolate icing! Boak.

quackingduck222 · 23/12/2017 18:12

I’m having a Mini fast today as well with hope of doing a full FD tomorrow.

Well done bug, sounds like a very successful day. It could of easily been so much worse.

purpleviolet1 · 23/12/2017 18:47

Mine turned into a NFD - went Nando's but hopefully within tdee. See what tomorrow brings!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/12/2017 20:46

Well done, everyone

bug It sounds like tip and I have permanently put you off communal cake Grin

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 24/12/2017 14:18

Merry Christmas Eve everybody,

Eat well but eat mindfully
as then you will have all of the pleasure and none of the regrets.

HLBug · 24/12/2017 14:26

How many calories are there in lemsip... sniff sniff Xmas Sad Every. Bloody. Year.

Ta1kinPeace · 24/12/2017 14:30

(((( Bug ))))
Stay warm. Champagne cocktail is a good option Xmas Wink

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