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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 20/12/2017 19:34

FD finished at about 550 kcals - went all day on water then had Spanish chicken and baked beans for dinner. DH is on a night out tonight so I’m starting the Christmas wrapping (I hate wrapping Angry)

quackingduck222 · 20/12/2017 20:32

Purple & Bug - great job on your FD. I hate wrapping too, did a bit earlier to make time pass quicker. I’m still not done. Sigh

Yeah can’t beat a early night on a FD.

OuchBollocks · 20/12/2017 20:40

Day finished on 850 calories today. I feel unusually tired. Dunno if that's because of the fast day or just life. Bed shortly.

quackingduck222 · 20/12/2017 20:52

Well done Ouch, hope a good sleep will see you right as rain tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2017 07:38

Well done on your FDs bug, duck, ouch, purple
Sleep is so important for health, as well as helping weight loss
imo, most folk needed the extra sleep - have early nights on NFDs too, if you feel tired.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 08:18

9 st 10lbs exactly this morning! This is the lowest I've been since starting 5:2. I hit this point before holiday but I think this is going to be a sticky point so got to keep on going Grin

HLBug · 21/12/2017 09:08

Well done purple Smile

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 09:38

Thanks! I have a goal of being at 9st 6lbs by mid Feb. Weight loss is slow for me, I have a deficit of 2000 cals a week only so that's two thirds of a lb.

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 09:38

I want to be in the 8's by the time I go back to work in April! Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 21/12/2017 12:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 14:09

You too mother of four!

quackingduck222 · 21/12/2017 15:51

Happy Christmas Mother!

Purple well done on your scale victory that’s fantastic!

I’m all for setting myself targets as I do find it helps me focus and also pushes me to do more. Usually excersize wise, so I find it a bonus.

I’ve never quite gotten to them, close by a few lbs but I don’t beat myself up if I don’t quite get there.

Actually I may do the same myself as I feel I’m dragging this out a bit now, don’t get me wrong very happy with my loss this year and the fact I’ve got my depression under control . But I need something to focus on and push myself into excersize wise as if I’ve not got a goal in mind I do the bare minimum Grin

I’m meeting some of my DHs friends over Xmas who are fintness mad I’m hoping some of there good vibes rubs off on me!

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 16:33

I recently got an Apple Watch and hoping I will also push myself in the new year Grin when is your next FD?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2017 16:37

Well done on your SV, purple
Going where no Purple has gone before Smile

Happy Christmas mother
See you back in the NY - promptly mind ! Wink

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 21/12/2017 16:40

I’ve got one too, it’s good inspiration to get your steps up. I do find mine a bit of a nag tho as it keeps telling me to stand up Grin

Having a carb heavy tea tonight so was hoping to have one tomorrow but would be easier for me on Saturday. So yeah will probably go FD Saturday and mini fast Xmas eve. Just as a way of cutting back in preparation for Xmas.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2017 16:42

Good luck with the exercise, duck Always a good idea
Also pop over to the 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 if you want some ideas or a plan, niw or after your friends have gone

Exercise may not lose much / any weight, but it often helps define muscle, firms waist & upper arms and make you "look" leaner
It's certainly good for health and also for mild depression

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 21/12/2017 16:57

Thanks BCF I will do. I found myself definitely dropping the inches in the summer when I was working out. I wasn’t do much cardio actually very little more toning but it made a definite difference in my thighs core and stomach.

I’ve lost my measurements now but at the time I couldn’t believe my eyes. The inch loss exceeded the weight loss. When in theory it shouldn’t has as its 2 inches per dress size and I was led to believe 10-14 lbs per dress size (depending on where it was coming off)

I’ve always said for me it’s not about the weight but the way I look so something to aim for in the new year. Especially as you can’t target where you loose weight. But you can target problem areas with exercise.

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 17:14

I'm trying to do 10 jumping jacks when it reminds me to stand Grin

Ta1kinPeace · 21/12/2017 20:21

Toned weight definitely fills less fabric than untoned Smile

quackingduck222 · 21/12/2017 20:54

That’s more than I do purple GrinHate the phrases on the new update like “let’s make today happen”

Who’s fasting tomorrow? I’m stuffed now so don’t know whether to do tomorrow or not. It may depend on what I’m cooking and if I can stomach my own cooking Wink

MazDazzle · 21/12/2017 20:56

Wow. Well done on your fantastic SV purple and well done to everyone who’s managed a FD today.

I’ve had a successful FD here, my last proper one until after the NY.

I’ve been having cramps and feeling queasy all day. Please, dear God, don’t let this be the dreaded bug. I’ve managed to escape it, so far! I have far too much to do.

purpleviolet1 · 21/12/2017 20:56

My mate is coming over and we're ordering in so I'll try and do Saturday

quackingduck222 · 21/12/2017 21:02

Well done on your FD maz and fingers crossed for you not to come down with the dredded big that’s doing the rounds.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2017 21:36

Fingers crossed for you, maz
Have an early night and give your bod its best chance to fight off any bug

OP posts:
Justanothernap · 21/12/2017 23:30

Second FD completed...weigh in tomos, then I'm having a week off, will still loosely calorie count to stop going completely off the rails but can't see any FDs happening.

First FD scheduled 2/1/18 (ready for reminding on here!) won't weigh next week but will weigh after second fast day after my week off & hope (pray) for a sts!

Planning on doing couch to 5k in Jan. Like others I'm on Mat leave with a baby & toddler to look after going back p/t to an office job... will need more exercise! Hope you're childcare woes resolve ouch that sounds stressful.

And well done on your sv purple & happy Christmas to those lurking waiting for Jan to hit!