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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
purpleviolet1 · 19/12/2017 07:23

Just another Grin I went to bed 🛏 instead!

purpleviolet1 · 19/12/2017 09:18

9st10.9lbs this morning. I haven't seem to get lower than this for a few weeks - I kept going back up to 11 or 12lbs. I have had some breaks/ been unwell and not fully focussed. Let's see if I can get lower than this before new year!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2017 09:44

Well done on your FDs, purple, just

An miniFD is 700-1000 cals

purple "red rice" is Camargue rice, a healthy choice
It is (from nature) a reddish-brown colour, has a mildy nutty flavour and is slightly chewy
Like brown rice, it has been much less industrially processed, so it retains more fibre and nutrients
I find it tastier and more interesting than brown rice.

Decent vegan restaurants may have it - I enjoy it at a vegan stall when I'm in Frankfurt Main station
Health food shops and some supermarkets have bags of (uncooked) red rice
To cook: Cover rice in a pot with boiling water. Simmer until tender, about 30 - 40 minutes, then drain & serve

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 19/12/2017 10:02

Purple I sound similar to you, I keep getting stuck each stone bracket on the .9lbs and it takes weeks to get under. I seem to bounce around that weight for ages then it just goes like that.

I will be sticking a FD in tomorrow as my weight is slowly creeping up again and I want to do a bit of damage limitation.

purpleviolet1 · 19/12/2017 10:24

Thanks BCF I've added to my amazon basket! Will give it a try.

Quacking, it's pretty tough having a low TDEE 1539 cals as well I find. It's so easy to overeat..

Happy to do a FD with you tomorrow! Encouraging to have support. I'll report back inabit of what I plan to eat

quackingduck222 · 19/12/2017 11:03

Yours is a little higher than mine. Mines 1449 Cals.

Glad I read your post as you’ve reminded me to stock up on eggs ready for tomorrow’s FD. I without fail now have a mushroom & ham omelette. I have experimented a bit and found adding cheese does nothing to the flavour so I have a extra egg instead of the cheese.

purpleviolet1 · 19/12/2017 11:23

That sounds good actually - I have eggs which need using up!

I shouldn't moan about my TDEE .. you are my inspiration!

quackingduck222 · 19/12/2017 12:00

Love a omelette on a FD. Tried the salad & fish / veg and for me I just find I’m hungry after but the omelette keeps me going until the next day.

It’s been a bit trial and error but fun finding the lowest calorie substantial meal.

OuchBollocks · 19/12/2017 13:52

My tdee is almost 2100, not taking bf'ing into account, so 800-900 is as low as I can go on a FD. I'm almost 2 stone down since I started so its definitely working for me.

quackingduck222 · 19/12/2017 14:05

Wow ouch are you really tall and active?

I’m vertically challenged hence my low TDEE.

That is a AMAZING loss, and your still BFing, that absolutely incredible!

OuchBollocks · 19/12/2017 19:49

I'm 5'8" and my activity level is set to the one just above sedentary - I'm on mat leave with two small kids, I walk pretty much everywhere pushing a heavy buggy and rarely get to sit down so I don't think I'm at all sedentary! But I'm also still over 12stone, I had edged into the obese category when I started and am now less than half a stone away from a healthy BMI :)

quackingduck222 · 19/12/2017 20:20

Wow Ouch that’s absolutely incredible, 2 small children and you’ve lost 2 stone.

That is honestly amazing, for me I found when I was at that stage on maternity leave is when I massively gained. Not during pregnancy it was the months after I piled on the pounds. Massively I went from a 14-22.

So absolutely fair play to you. And all the others on here with little ones. Your all doing a smashing job.

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 07:42

Quacking, I'm also short. 5ft 2.5!

Ouch that's amazing! How old are your LO?

Are we on for a FD today quacking? I need to as I had a bit of chocolate in bed last night.... Blush

I'll be having - 1 weetobix for breakfast and then mince curry with peas, potatoes and peppers. Not sure what I'll be having that with yet..

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 07:44

P.S I know I'm not supposed to break rules on NFD to only try and make up with FD but this time of year is difficult and I at the very least want to sts rather than put on..

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 08:03

9st 10.5 this morn Grin

OuchBollocks · 20/12/2017 09:28

Aw thanks quacking Blush purple my DC are 3.5 years and 9 months. Back to work in a few weeks boo, but if I don't bring cash to work it'll make FDs easy.

What mince do you use in your mince curry? What else do you put in it?

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 09:37

I have a 9 month old too! Grin

I use lamb mince. Place the mince in a bit of water, add salt, red chilli, turmeric powder, dried coriander powder, ginger, garlic, tinned tomatoes, green chilli. Once mostly cooked, add drop of oil and turn heat up. Give it 5/10 mins until oil separates from mince. Turn heat down and Add nearly done potatoes cut small, sliced green / red pepper, frozen peas, sprinkle of Garam masala powder, crushed fenugreek leaves (methi) and fresh coriander. When peas and potatoes are done then dig in! Lovely with fresh buttered chapatti or naan

HLBug · 20/12/2017 09:49

FD here today too. I’ve had a weird week so far. Mini of 900 on Sunday, FD (kinda) of 680 on Monday, and normal day yesterday but still only 1150. Going for a FD today and another on Friday to set me up for DHs birthday on Saturday, and of course Christmas next week. No idea when I’ll try and fast next week, I’ll just see how it goes I think. Mid/late week probably.

When are you back to work Ouch - I’m back middle of February and would like to be another half stone down by then. DD (8 month) starts settling in at Nursery on 4th Jan baaaaah!!! At least DS (3.8) goes to the same place so they’ll be able to see each other.

quackingduck222 · 20/12/2017 10:21

Purple your on for that FD. I really need it.

Couple of coffees and water will get me through until tea time omelette.

Your the same height as me. That explains our low TDEES.

Good luck for you FD today Bug, it’s strange this week it’s almost the calm before the storm. I am aiming for 2 FD and a mini. Not to loose really but damage limitation my weights crept up again.

The silly thing is I struggled for weeks to get under that damn sticky patch but I find once I’m under it even if I regain a bit it comes off quicker and I don’t get stuck again.

No idea what I’m doing next week, will try and get a FD or 2 but I’m hoping except from Xmas day just to have my evening meals to try and avoid the all day eating fest.

OuchBollocks · 20/12/2017 11:03

HLBug my first shift is 10/1 Sad at least my uniform trousers fit! Childcare was all sorted until DH's bosses fucked us over 2 weeks ago... Angry fd today. So far so good.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2017 12:32

That's excellent news that your uniform fits, ouch

During the vacation, what helps on NFDs:
+NO snacking
+Daily 16:8 (or 14:10)
+Keep drinking lots of water

Good luck to all Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 20/12/2017 18:45

How are you getting on purple & Bug?

FD done here. Mushroom omelette with a smidge of brown sauce & 2 tomatos.

Got time to get some water down me and havinga early night as DH doesn’t break up for Xmas for a few days yet.

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 19:18

Quacking - FD done here too. Time to drink up and wind down for an early night

purpleviolet1 · 20/12/2017 19:19

Got to be strong!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2017 19:21

Early night is always a good idea on FDs
As soon as you've had supper, drink a glass of water, then clean your teeth - to avoid temptation

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