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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Ta1kinPeace · 16/12/2017 14:02

motherof
If you keep up the MFP through Christmas you will eat less because its rather embarrassing to type in "Icecream 500g" Grin

And actually No snacking is really easy to stick to once in the habit.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2017 15:56

Well done on your SV, mother
As you are already within healthy BMI and not T2/preT2, you have lost at a decent rate and a vacation break should be fine.
If your DH is pausing too, point him at holiday tips below:

Standard vacation tips for everyone:

  • BEFORE the vacation, note in your calendar - and post here for moral support nagging ! - the date of your first FD back
  • NO snacking - a big help on its own, to avoid too much gain Have meals, nothing between - including fruit, canapés, dips, crisps, lattes & alcohol - which all belong only with meals
  • Start each day with a glass of water and keep drinking
  • Try to stay within NHS alcohol limits and alternate any Wine with glasses of water - pretty it up with fancy glass, ice, a slice & an umbrella ?
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2017 15:58

I hope your foot is recovering well, tip Flowers
You can still exercise your abs and upper body though < pitiless sergeant-major manqué Grin >

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 16/12/2017 16:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2017 16:13

Anyone who is sts / losing too slowly

I never actually did full mfp on NFDs, but I found even listing what I ate in a food diary, which sometimes included

. 4 choc doughnuts
. 2 pieces cheesecake
. 2 choc cookies
. pizza

WTF < brainfart 😱 >

caused me to look up calories for just the junk total and come to a very silly number, which I needed to slash.

For better results, I suggest weekly treat limits - includes alcohol !:
Weight loss phase - treat calories < 10% TDEE
Maintenance < 20%

Not so tough in 5:2, since FDs naturally don't have any junk Halo

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 16/12/2017 21:07

Well done MotherOf a lb is fab.

Is anyone still intending to fast over Xmas season?

Went for our Xmas do this evening and I had a massive breakthrough for me. I was full and I stopped eating. I can honestly say I don’t think I’ve ever done this in a restaurant before. As I’ve always been brought up to eat what’s on my plate. And I’d say it wasn’t a huge portion either.

I’m slowly getting there, and this comes from the person who eats massive meals and I’m ashamed to say I used to be able to eat most men under the table.

I didn’t have any alcohol either so I can have my FD as planned, I find as I rarely drink I get drunk very easily and I have tried to do a FD when hungover and it doesn’t work. Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 17/12/2017 01:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2017 10:25

duck I'm doing ADF to help avoid gain over my 3 week hols - not at all strict, just miniFDs when it fits in with social events

mother That was 4 years ago. After an initial loss then on IF, I made no further progress until I retrained my NFDs too
As you'll note: I certainly wasn't one of those healthy eaters who just needed minor tweaks Blush
Apart from being a lifelong exerciser (helps cope in an NT world) I had a dreadful lifestyle between ages 3-57

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2017 10:28

Several 5:2ers have found their tolerance for larger amounts of alcohol has dropped, duck
It seems the FDs can reduce tolerance built up over years - that lets your bod remind you that alcohol's toxic byproducts are not good in excess.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2017 10:31

"I used to be able to eat most men under the table."
explains the previous weight issue, duck - you didn't have their TDEE

Great NSV in new habits - what you need for lifelong maintenance

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 17/12/2017 12:19

I do not tend to do proper fasts over Christmas
but I certainly never eat three meals a day.

Christmas day will be brunch and dinner
Boxing day will be breakfast and supper
etc

realising that the world does not end if I miss meals is fab
and my teens are never awake early so breakfast is easy to ignore

OuchBollocks · 17/12/2017 14:01

I am on a FD today and will be on Tuesday. I might try for one on the 27th - DH will be working and we have no plans to see anyone.

HLBug · 17/12/2017 14:02

No idea of calories in yesterday...let’s just say more than TDEE Xmas Blush so I’m having a 900 calorie mini fast day today to try and balance things up a bit. It would be soooo easy to slip into old habits at the moment, but I’m keeping going. I’m going to definitely try and fit in FDs and Minis wherever I can over the Christmas holidays, I need to keep some control over things.

peachypips · 17/12/2017 18:19

Hi all- just checking in.

Have thrown in the towel for the next ten days- will prob do some serious damage but I don’t really mind as I know what to do now to get rid of a gain and then move on to lose the rest.

Mon - Fri this week I will go low carb and sugar however.

I think I’ll easily manage the 7 pound average Christmas gain!

purpleviolet1 · 17/12/2017 22:12

Bad day today.

Lunch - Had a home made buttered paratha with carrot and swede mash as a filler followed by aldi wack (v similar to a rocky)

Dinner - small portion of chicken mushroom leek pepper pie with half a garlic bread and half a margarita followed by sticky toffee puddding and ice cream Envy

Defo having a FD tomorrow. Just not sure what to have as dinner. Would courgette curry with a chapatti be ok?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2017 22:28

I'd go for brown / red rice rather than chapati on an FD, purple That curry sounds yum

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 18/12/2017 08:15

Good FD yesterday and another pound down this morning despite Friday night's cocktails and kebab Grin

MazDazzle · 18/12/2017 09:10

Well done Ouch.

I love fasting at this time of year. It always makes me feel in control at what could otherwise be a disasterous time eating wise. Rather than strict 5:2 though, I just do a mini-FD whenever I can.

Planning on a proper 500 cal FD on Thurs though as it’s my 5 year anniversary since my first FD. I’m as proud as punch! Grin I’m 18lb lighter than I was 5 years ago, and I’ve had a baby in that time too. Not too shabby at all.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2017 10:04

Brilliant achievements during your 5 years.
Happy 5:2 anniversary, maz Flowers

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2017 10:05

Well done on your SV, ouch especially so near Christmas

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 18/12/2017 10:14

BCF what's red rice??

quackingduck222 · 18/12/2017 10:14

Well done ouch.

Congratulations Maz that’s amazing.

FD yesterday, weigh in today and I’m slightly up on lasts weeks, not too worried tho as this week I only have 1 night out planned and I’m sure it will level itself out.

That’s interesting that most of you are doing the Mini-Fast route over Xmas. Is that 1000 Cals?

Ta1kinPeace · 18/12/2017 12:04

quacking
For me a "mini fast" is around 900 calories (my TDEE is only 1500)
in the format of one decent sized and one very small meal
it seems to work.

Maz
WELL DONE Grin

purpleviolet1 · 18/12/2017 20:32

I'm nearly there.... FD almost done...must keep out of the kitchen.....

Justanothernap · 18/12/2017 21:08

purple I'm the same.. FD successfully completed. As long as I don't eat anything else!

Everyone's seems to be going really well. I'm hugely paranoid about stepping on the scales after my second FD later this week. Last weeks loss seems to good to be true. And there has been a lot of social eating recently.

Still I know I've kept a reign on things whilst still enjoying food & social events. 5/2 is so good for that.