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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 14/12/2017 09:42

FD here today too. Does anyone else suffer from bad breath on FDs?! Maybe I need to drink more water?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2017 09:57

Raw cauli is low cal, like almost all non-starchy veg
However, like all veggies that's when you don't add other high calorie ingredients to them

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 14/12/2017 09:59

Hlbug I've noticed that , when my
Mouth is dry. Definitely a reminder to drink more water!!

I recently bought the Apple Watch and downloaded theapp last night to remind me to drink water. I've had 3 glasses so far Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2017 10:02

bug That can happen when you are burning fat - like in low carb with ketosis
However, it may also be coffee breath ! (or remnants of whatever you drink / eat)
I suggest you clean teeth briefly after each meal, or at least swish mouthwash for 10 secs - also use mouthwash after any drink that's not plain water

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2017 10:04

But definitely drink more water too - a lack can cause bad breath
you need more water on FDs as you are not getting as much moisture from the reduced amount of food.

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 14/12/2017 13:38

Fasting today - mainlining mugs of tea and then an omelette beckons for supper

MazDazzle · 14/12/2017 21:11

Successful FD. Just about, anyway.

Had my dinner at 8pm: a bowl of lentil soup, some crackers, cream cheese, an apple and houmous. I haven’t counted, but I know it’s more than 500 cals. I’m happy with it, nonetheless.

Someone mentioned biscuits up thread and I was salivating at the thought. Blush

quackingduck222 · 14/12/2017 21:45

Well done Maz,

Unsuccessful FD here, made it until 8pm too. Damn, never mind will rearrange for tomorrow.

HLBug · 14/12/2017 22:05

I’m closing on about 540 kcals. Starting to dread some of my upcoming Christmas social arrangements - I think I need to just go with the flow over the next few weeks. Feeling grumpy at another dinner invite next week - how ridiculous!!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2017 22:12

bug Try not to stress about social events.
What I do this time of year is aim to maintain - chill, don't try to keep losing over a holiday
I do this via ADF (Alternate Day Fasting) so I can enjoy social occasions every other day which is plenty for an unsociable bugger llike me and rein it back in between

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/12/2017 22:20

Well done, Maz, Bug, Tip and all the other Thursday fasters

Don't worry, just move on, duck
Plan the menu in advance, and nail the FD tomorrow, or Saturday

I had an FD today too, sandwiched in between Wednesday & Friday - which both have big Christmas dinners with 3 / 5 course lunches

I didn't go out in the freezing rain, so my meal was "dirty porridge" (about 400 cals) at 5:30 pm - Grin
i.e. oats with 1 tbsp chia seeds, cocoa, 1 square organic 92% cocoa choc, a dash of cashew milk

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 15/12/2017 07:55

Thanks BCF, that’s the beauty of this it’s so flexible.

Xmas meal on Saturday. Not great choices we had to pick from but the portions are going to be quite small.

Im really pleased my weight has stabilized this week. Im usually all over the place by -2 - +3.

For me I’ve had the biggest NSV this week I always had a dream that my idea weight would be to fit into a primark size 8 skinny jean. I have done it, snug but I can get them on.

So after Xmas a couple more pounds and that’s me done.

HLBug · 15/12/2017 09:42

Well done quacking, you must be so chuffed Smile

And thanks BCF I just need to chill out and focus on maintaining for the next few weeks. I’m back on 16:8 so that should help. And may try 4:3 (or at least a mini) where I can.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2017 12:32

Congrats on your size 8 skinnies NSV, duck

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 15/12/2017 13:20

Thank you. I’m chuffed to bits, but need to work a bit on acceptance as my big thighs are still big and I need to accept that. They have reduced massively and in clothes look fine, I just look curvy.

But with no clothes on it’s a different matter as where my clothes waist band is it dips inwards massively so it makes my thighs look terrible.

Still I’m down from a size 14 in March and I’m willing to learn to live with it Grin

purpleviolet1 · 15/12/2017 13:30

Quacking that's fantastic and my inspiration!

Justanothernap · 15/12/2017 14:33

I've had a fabled woosh! 10'8 from 10'13! Seems almost a bit unbelievable. I stood on the scales 3 times. Think it's due to the end of totm. Yay. I'm so happy!

Well done quacking size 8 skinny jeans - thats the stuff of dreams!

quackingduck222 · 15/12/2017 15:44

If I can do it anyone can. I never thought it was possible. I was a very big girl not that long ago (for me anyway)

I do love this way of life tho and I’m so glad I took it up back last year.

HLBug · 15/12/2017 16:53

Congrats just I love a good whoooooosh!

quackingduck222 · 15/12/2017 16:58

Bloody hell Just that’s one hell of a whoosh.

5lbs holy cow that’s loads. What a lovely suprise. ShockShockShock

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2017 17:57

Well done on your whooshing SV, just
Totm probably hid some earlier fat loss, so your bod has quietly been burning fat when you weren't looking

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 15/12/2017 18:02

No loss for me this week, but no gain either which is fine - I have a foot injury that is limiting the amount of aerobic exercise I can do.
Keeping the drinking under control helps.
It would have been nice to head into Christmas at "racing weight" but maybe next year Smile
Have so far eaten about 250 calories - lots of room for pizza and Wine later

purpleviolet1 · 15/12/2017 18:56

Well done just another!!!

Motheroffourdragons · 15/12/2017 23:03

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Motheroffourdragons · 15/12/2017 23:03

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