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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 18:23

Goldfish As I posted before, since you have been losing pretty well on 5:2, I recommend you try 2 weeks on 6:1
Even if you just sts, it's good to know you can maintain on 6:1

Why not do 2 weeks 6:1, then if you don't feel happy, alternate with 2 weeks 5:2
It's a nice way to segue into maintenance, which for you may be 6:1 or even 13:1

OP posts:
peachypips · 08/10/2017 18:28

What a lot of wisdom and experience on this thread! Appreciating your help a lot- you are all very inspiring.

Bit of a disaster with the eating this weekend at the reunion. Hoping it was mitigated by the fast days in Mon, Wed and Fri. I suspect not however!

As advised I will now only weigh on thurs morning after my fast day. I do def find weighing too often very demoralising and it can make me binge if I feel I'm not losing weight. If I believe I'm losing weight I stick to a healthy woe regardless of whether I actually have or not!

Fast day and a run tomorrow. Want to increase my distance a bit tomorrow as I'm recovering after a calf injury.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 19:08

Good luck with your FD and run to morrow, peachy
Do build up carefully after an injury, but over the next weeks you may be pleasantly surprised with a pb

  • many 5:2 runners have found that they keep having pbs, as their weight drops and their fitness increases. Fasted training does improve fitness for many folk I recommend when you are fully recovered from your injury that you add a few sprint intervals, which can really boost fitness, being HIIT.
OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 08/10/2017 19:15

FD tomorrow. Aiming for M/W/F this week.

SingingGoldfinch · 08/10/2017 22:39

Thanks BCF - brilliant advice as always! I could remember you posting advice along these lines before but was struggling to find it. I think I'll do as you suggest and try a couple of weeks on 6:1 and see how it goes. Fingers crossed!! I'll be monitoring closely to check I keep on track and don't start creeping back up but you have to move to maintenance at some point and there's only one way to find out. As you rightly say BCF I can always switch back to 5:2 if it goes a bit awry!

TheMShip · 09/10/2017 09:04

Ouch I'll join you on the M/W/F this week. Feeling a bit lethargic and I need a little boost. Started well today, and it's a busy week at work so that will help.

OuchBollocks · 09/10/2017 09:26

Good luck with maintenance singing, I'm so impressed with what you've achieved.

Good luck to us MShip, its good that you're joining me. It will make me feel more accountable Grin

SingingGoldfinch · 09/10/2017 10:24

Good luck with your 3 FDs Ouch and MShip! 3 in one week is a challenge but I'm sure you can do it and you'll feel a great sense of achievement when it's done!

I'm doing a fd today on my first week of 6:1. I do like my Monday fd as a cleanse after the weekend so will definitely look to keep this up if 6:1 maintenance works for me!

Good luck to all those fasting today!

1moreRep · 09/10/2017 12:23

i am struggling- hard core gym session then soup and a packet of crisps - i've literally 140 cals left until i get to 500!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2017 12:44

1more For your next FD, I recommend you check out different options to crisps
With only 500 cals available for FDs, go for the most nutritious and filling options. That's usually protein with masses of veg, plus optionally a small helping of high quality starches

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2017 12:45

On the go, I take a small ready pack of vegan sushi, as it keeps so well.
The vinegar and spices help slow down the rate of absorption and keep you full longer

OP posts:
1moreRep · 09/10/2017 12:50

i had my lentil soup and i literally need cups of tea so i had milk but the crisps were only 65 cal - i am going to tough it out lol

peachypips · 09/10/2017 14:12

Oy oy fasters. I'll join you Mship and ouch - was planning Mon/Wed/Fri anyway.

Do you ever get to a point where you enjoy fasting? I hate it!

TheMShip · 09/10/2017 14:13

Hey Monday fasters, keep it up! Only a few more hours till lovely lean protein & veg heavy dinner, we're all going to make it today. I'm hovering just under 300 calories (lunch mini meal of veg soup and popcorn) and aiming for 800 with a dinner of lentil, courgette, and mushroom stuffed peppers.

Vegan sushi sounds excellent, wonder where I can source some here....

TheMShip · 09/10/2017 14:16

xpost peachy I often feel very reluctant to fast when I get up, but once I've made it past lunch I feel great. I don't, however, do the full 500kcal only FDs as I'm willing to trade slower weight loss for being able to stick to the WOL. I'm trying 4:3 on 800 this week since I find that amount fairly easy to do. It just means skipping breakfast, mini lunch, and a FD dinner. That should give me a weekly deficit of ~3200, plus whatever exercise I do (but I don't count that).

OuchBollocks · 09/10/2017 14:59

I don't usually feel like fasting in the morning but I usually find if I just have a cup of tea and power through then I'm happy enough to carry on. That said, I gave a splitting headache today. Don't know if its the fasting or something else but I don't have any bovril or miso soup at home, and my soy sauce is the low sugar stuff. Would half a cup a soup (80cal a cup) help if it is?

SingingGoldfinch · 09/10/2017 15:15

I wouldn't say I 'enjoy' fasting but I've grown to like the results of it and so I don't in any way dread my FDs - in fact they've just become second nature if I'm honest. I never hungry first thing in the morning though and don't eat breakfast anyway so that means a fd morning is no different from any other!

TheMShip · 09/10/2017 16:18

Ouch yes, go for the soup if it's got salt in it. Singing I like breakfast so I have been pleasantly surprised to find I can go without it.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2017 16:52

On NFDs, I sometimes have "breakfast" for lunch or evening meal, i.e. bacon, egg, tomato, mushrooms, plus sweet potato fries

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2017 17:01

I always keep 2 pkts of Bovril cubes and 2 jars of Marmite: 1 for home and 1 for office

What also works well on FDs, both to reduce hunger & headaches:
I often get a 500 ml veg juice carton (spicy tomato, celery & carrot), which is only 20 cals per 100ml and contains salt.
I treat it like soup, so I have 250 ml for FD lunch sometimes, only 50 cals

OP posts:
peachypips · 09/10/2017 18:59

I just have a vaguely uncomfortable uneasy feeling all day. Weird.

CroakingCrocus · 09/10/2017 19:15

Hello & happy Monday to everyone.

Just closed the kitchen on 530 or thereabouts. Spent most of the days in meetings surrounded by food and drink but managed to resist. They even had chocolate Oatley drinking boxes in my last one. I love chocolate Oatley but managed to resist and had sparkling water instead.

Had Pret chicken & veggie soup for a late lunch and dinner of scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, smoked salmon and cherry tomatoes. Plan to drink loads of water this evening and maybe a mint tea or two.

SingingGoldfinch · 09/10/2017 20:39

I've taken to spreading marmite on a rice cracker to stave off mid afternoon hunger pangs (that's when it really strikes me). Not the nicest thing in the world but it does really seem to help!

Kitchen closed here on around 550cals. Even managed to resist the hot chocolate chip cookie pudding thing which I served up for the family!

Good work to all those completing FDs today! Love how we all encourage and spur each other on here!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2017 21:15

Well done, crocus, goldfinch and all the Monday fasters
You really showed iron determination to resist that choc, crocus Maybe have some to orrow.

I hope the FD ended well, 1more, peachy

OP posts:
DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 09/10/2017 21:31

Well done Monday fasters. I am fasting tomorrow. Feel far too fat to weigh myself