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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
OuchBollocks · 11/11/2017 06:52

Weighed this morning. Thought I'd fallen badly off the wagon in the last 2 weeks but have actually lost 1.5lbs Hmm not complaining! Must not be troughing like I used to.

Bestbees · 11/11/2017 07:33

Well done ouch! I find once i have a few fast days it sort of dials my appetite right down! So last nigjt i felt like nibnling but was able to resist.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2017 07:38

Well done on your SV, ouch

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 11/11/2017 09:27

Well done ouch!

I tried a press-up the other dAy, and muscles aching since! Will keep trying.

quackingduck222 · 11/11/2017 10:11

7lbs is amazing best, I wondered if it was your first week / return to 5:2. Its a amazing incentive boost isn’t it.

Yesterday turned into a impromptu FD, DH wanted omelette for tea and as that’s my go to FD meal I thought why not.

Saturday is usually the day I would have a binge. It’s the only day I actually sit down and watch a spot of tv and that’s when I eat the contents of our treat cupboard so I’m not going to watch tv today and will crack on with something else.

I’ve got a nice tea planned for this evening so hopefully the thought of that will keep me on track.

Good luck to any FDers today.

Ta1kinPeece · 11/11/2017 17:09

Well last night I failed on the dry November
BUT
having been dry for ten days, a little bit of wine was more than enough
and I'm happy to stay dry for another week now.
If I can learn to drink in moderation once I start, this month will have done me long term good.

Scales down another 1lb in the week. 7 more to go to get back to "happy weight"

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2017 17:22

Well done on your SV, tip
I agree, training yourself to drink in moderation for the longterm would be your best NSV

I have sweet things now in moderation - usually 1 portion every week, only the best quality
Interesting: it gives me more pleasure than my previous processed choc crap gluttony
A treat should be occasional & only high quality
It should be savoured

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2017 17:25

My no-sugar plan until mid-Dec will except the 2 Christmas dos I'll attend, if they come early
Not joining in a good dessert would be deprivation - which we don't do - rather than giving my liver & pancreas a rest

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 11/11/2017 17:30

Agreed that the occasional treat is much more of a proper treat. Last week at MILs I really really fancied the cherry pie and custard she had in for dessert, so I had a portion, first sweet thing I'd had since my hols in mid September. I enjoyed every mouthful but it didnt open the floodgates.

They were giving out free chocolate in the supermarket today. I was able to say no thank you without a second thought. Quite the change from before.

Ta1kinPeece · 11/11/2017 19:08

Saturday night drinking lemon squash while watching the rugby.
I might get the hang of this sobriety stuff Grin

purpleviolet1 · 11/11/2017 19:37

Somewhere between a fd and NFD today - 1200 calories

quackingduck222 · 11/11/2017 19:53

Another good day here. Avoided McDonald’s and DH listened when I said no we have a chicken dinner for tonight.

Managed to get a load of water down me today too.

I think something clicked in my head today as I realized my weight shouldn’t determine my happiness. I ordered a new skirt in a size 8 ( I always say but I’m not a size 8 as I thought it was only one shop) I didn’t think it would fit and was hoping it would by target but it fits lovely does up and has enough room for my thighs.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2017 22:07

That's a lemon squash NSV, tip Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2017 22:10

Well done on your chocs NSV, ouch
and on your insight about happiness, duck

That's a good Saturday, purple

OP posts:
CeciledeVolanges · 12/11/2017 12:23

Third time lucky...

I'm not in a good place with food at the moment. Boredom/misery eating has always been a big thing for me and now I'm at my highest ever weight and just conscious of it all the time, and I know I'm only eating out of habit but I feel like there will be a void if I stop. It's a bad place.

This has worked for me twice before, albeit temporarily, just to get my mind away from the constant food thoughts and unpleasantness associated with that.

Any reassurance that these feelings are not forever and that the putative inner lean person does exist would be appreciated probably more than you know. In the meantime, huge encouragement to all of you - I'm a periodic lurker so I can say with some minimal authority that you're a collective inspiration and individually brilliant.

:)

Ta1kinPeece · 12/11/2017 14:37

Cecile
Have you tried a mood/food diary?
Each time you want to eat, write down

  • what you plan to eat
  • why that food
  • why you feel like eating
  • what else might make you feel better
after which you may still choose to inhale a tub of ice cream but you'll do it conciously and eating consciously is the first stage in eating in a self controlled way.
BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 14:45

Welcome back, cecile and good luck
Sensible eating and drinking can help your mood, not just your bod

I have to admit that I have only over eaten due to gluttony - food is just so yummy ! - not for emotional reasons

So I can only suggest the obvious, particularly wrt boredom, that you develop interests to fill your days and keep your hands occupied.
If the misery has causes that can be tackled, I'd make my plans.
If it's medical, visit thenGP again and discuss medication changes
Otherwise, find ways to ameliorate and distract yourself

Exercise helps many:
walking, jogging, rope-skipping, dancing around the house to your fav music, an exercsie vid like Shred, gym classes ....
Or crafts - try your hand at creating, whatever the standard
Joining a club that might interest you

Personally, I'm a bookworm, with umpteen thousand paper books, now on Kindle Unlimited - fills all my spare hours
Others love music, going to concerts, theatre, ballet, cinema ....

OP posts:
Bestbees · 12/11/2017 16:35

Hi cecile!

I struggle with binge eating when angry/frustrated.

I find that committing to 5:2 seems to switch off the desire a bit (perhaps to do with regulation with lack of snacking/reduced appetite/ reminder i can have it tomorrow). I just need to sort out my maintainance. Good luck.

Skipped breakfast again today. Yes i grt hungry but not ravenous and then really enjoyed my lunch (creamy butter bean stew) and have managed to turn down hot choc with whipped cream no problem.

Hope everyones weekends have gone well!

Ollivander84 · 12/11/2017 16:42

No gym today but worked at the stables. 15,000 steps done (10.5km)

OuchBollocks · 12/11/2017 17:01

I'm an emotional eater too. I've gotten much better at noticing when I'm trying to comfort eat, and more times than not I stop myself. Granted sometimes I still say sod it, but that's better than every time Grin

Major NSV here. Started 5:2 in ?June with a 37" waist. It went down to 34.5" fairly quickly. Today it was 30.5" Shock not bad at all at 5'8" and 8 months post c section, though with some way to go obviously.

quackingduck222 · 12/11/2017 18:00

Hi Cecile,

I struggle with binge eating for the sake of it and I also struggle with hunger and then eating too much.

I still have set backs occasionally but nowhere near as much as before as it used to happen 2-3 times a week.

For me I’ve recognized my issues of when and for me binge eating was during the week I get a few hours to myself and I would watch a film and eat tonnes of crap. So I stopped watching the film.

More recently it was on a Saturday watching trash tv and eating loads of crap, so I simply don’t watch trash tv now.

Today for example I’d eaten my lunch, a hour later was starving so it decided to be productive and put headphones on listened to music and had a big tidy up and made myself really busy. It works.

Busy, tidy house and finding hobbies seems to work for me.

You are really not alone, for me I find if I’m not posting I’m going off track. If I disappear for a couple of days I’m being naughty but I do find posting and confessing my sins does help.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 18:28

Brilliant waist NSV, ouch !
That should make a big difference to your shape and also reduces various health risks.

Sounds like you got a lot of work done, Ollivander and your horse probably enjoyed seeing you

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 12/11/2017 18:30

Haven't stopped! Mucked out 6 horses, turned horses out, brought horses in, filled hay nets etc. So all the walking was just incidental movement rather than aiming to walk that far

HLBug · 12/11/2017 21:19

Massive NSV weekend for me - I've been away with old uni friends but easily managed to 16:8 both days and resist all snacks! Because of these "tools" I stuck to around TDEE both days, despite a fast food burger lunch on Friday and a take away curry for dinner last night. So I've certainly not been deprived of treats! Also managed a mini-FD today (ending on 900 kcal) as I've made the most of travelling on various trains and planes over meal times. Off to bed now for a much needed early night. Haven't caught up with the thread over the days I've been away but I hope everyone is happy and well Smile

SingingGoldfinch · 13/11/2017 08:11

You're in the right place Cecil - it sounds like you really want to change your relationship with food and I really think 5:2 addresses that! You'll get loads of support and advice on this thread and we'll be with you every step of the way!

I'm off work with ds who has an inset day today so will wait till weds for my fd. We are going swimming and will cycle there and back which will be good exercise but hot choc is planned for afterwards! Good luck all Monday fasters!