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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
1moreRep · 10/11/2017 08:12

wow bestbees well done!!!

press-ups are good but for a remember challenge i would say a slow 1 on the first then 2 etc as you don’t want to sacrifice form

i’m 0.2 kg down and am very happy it’s not much but i don’t have much to loose and i have not been very strict. i love how this is predictable - it makes me feel in control- ie i get a good loss if ive stuck to the plan and vice versa

also has anyone watched the tv programme on secrets of the skinny people- they basically do this lol

purpleviolet1 · 10/11/2017 08:13

Think I’m going to have a FD today - mini one.

Feeling a bit bloated this morning

Bees that’s great!! Grin

CroakingCrocus · 10/11/2017 08:25

Well done Bees & good luck to any faster today.

I've finally lost some more after a bit of a stall. Down to 10.5, which is equal to a BMI of 22.4. Just over half a stone to go to target weight.

purpleviolet1 · 10/11/2017 08:45

My digital scales are really weird. They have to be in the exact same place otherwise the weight changes Hmm

TheMShip · 10/11/2017 09:31

I'm back! Been away at a work conference, haven't had a FD since last Monday (30th), will tackle a mini-FD today to get back into the swing of things. Scales only bumped up 2lb but I suspect it was still from travel bloat/food so I'm not at all worried. Back to regular 5:2 next week. Will catch up the thread later.

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 09:49

Proper FD today.

I have been dumped by my physio. He reckons the problems in bad ankle are from fairly complex nerve damage and he can't do anything more for me. Joy.

purpleviolet1 · 10/11/2017 09:53

Oh no sorry ouch ShockSad

SingingGoldfinch · 10/11/2017 11:29

Wow Bees!!!! That's an amazing SV!! You must be so chuffed!!

Good to have you back MShip! Sounds like you've done pretty well to avoid gaining - always hard to avoid bad food at conferences - so many pastries in my experience!!

Interesting what you say about the secrets of skinny people prog 1moreRep - I was planning to watch it over the weekend!

As for press ups - my hat goes off to anyone that can do one let alone repetitive ones. I can do all the harder level three moves on 50 day shred apart from the press ups. I just can't do them at all! I've not exercised for weeks either so definitely can't do them at the moment!

Good luck Friday fasters!

Ta1kinPeece · 10/11/2017 12:40

ouch
naughty physio.
find a sports one - they are better at getting people properly mobile again

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 13:53

Ta1kinPeece he's an amazing physio, was head sports physio for a large chain until he went into private practice with a load of advanced qualifications. My ankle is just honestly truly fucked.

peachypips · 10/11/2017 14:35

Oh Ouch I'm so sorry. It's so frustrating when you are a really active person and your body holds you back. Flowers

This thread has moved fast in 24hrs! I had a good TDEE day yesterday and today am having a mini fast as I feel like it !!!Shock I wouldn't have said that a couple of weeks ago! No breakfast, two eggs and a mass of leaves for lunch and a chicken kebab for dinner.

I can't believe all of you can do so many press ups! I actually cannot even do one full press-up.

Did Body Pumo this morning then went for an hour's cycling with DH this arvo.

SingingGoldfinch · 10/11/2017 15:23

Pleased I'm not the only one that can't do a single press up Peachy! Every time I read this thread I feel bad about my lack of exercise - I do walk everywhere but that's about it at the moment.

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 16:23

Me too singing.

FD is hard today. Had a fizzy diet drink (I know, I know) just to tide me over. I haven't had a fizzy drink since August! Maybe it's the cold weather.

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 17:39

Kitchen closed at 900 cal. I had porridge and strawberries and boiled eggs for dinner. I feel warm again.

Ta1kinPeece · 10/11/2017 17:49

ouch
Are they giving you pills for the nerve pain - to help your body to learn to work around it ?
Gabapentin is the well known one but has some stinker side effects but pregabalin worked for a friend of mine ....

peachy
press ups are really good for you - especially the tricep ones that get used in yoga a lot
I can only do about 30 or 40 in a session but they and plank and side plank and balancing will make your core muscles tighten so that you look and feel leaner

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 18:27

The consultant wrote to the GP practice to advise them of my diagnosis (CRPS) but its not bad enough for me to need meds. It's more the stiffness and lack of range of motion that gets me more than the pain, though obviously the pain is an issue.

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 10/11/2017 19:07

Sorry ouch poor poorly foot

7lb is awesome best

I haven't completed a fd since last Thursday Blush
But from yesterday I have joined Talk in abstinence from alcohol for (what's left of) November. I'm quite excited about it.
bigchoc how many press ups? Are you Wonder Woman? That's so impressive

Ollivander84 · 10/11/2017 19:11

Kitchen closed so managed a 16:8 today Smile
4 Pilates classes this week has left me a little sore so planning to attempt a run(!) tomorrow (couch to 5k on treadmill, I'm not allowed to run on tarmac)

purpleviolet1 · 10/11/2017 19:41

Ended up being a FD at around 700 calories Smile

OuchBollocks · 10/11/2017 21:12

BCF I'm giving blood on Tuesday, will that affect my FDs at all?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2017 21:29

Good for you , giving blood, ouch
Don't fast on the day, obviously and make sure you have a meal beforehand
I recommend scheduling your fasting so that your donation is the middle day of 3 successive NFDs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2017 21:30

i.e. try to have Mon-Wed as NFDs and fast Thursday.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2017 21:36

Congrats on your SV, crocus
At your BMI, progress will be slower than average, especially if you think you eat & drink above TDEE on NFDs

purple All scales - digital or mechanical) need to be exactly in the same place for consistent tesults
also on a hard surface (not carpeted)
and not sloping in any direction.

If the batteries are running low, that affects accuracy too.

Also, wait 2-3 seconds before stepping on the scales - don't jump on - and don't lean to the side or to the front / back

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2017 21:47

Welcome back, Mship A good FD should get rid of most / all of that conference bloat

Good luck with dry November, drK

Anyone interested in building pressups: check out the pressups section on on our 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP.
You can improve dramatically and it's never too late:
A longterm 5:2er, breadandwine, started on an earlier 5:2 exercise thread with zero pressups and after 2 or 3 years did a sponsored 1200 - he's in his late 70s.

OP posts:
Bestbees · 11/11/2017 06:26

Thanks for all the press ups tips. I will have a go a building then up! I was doing lots of yoga and gained strenth so need to get back to it.

It was just my first week back at 5.2 who ever asked. Think i lost a lot of water retention though, dont expect anything dramatic this week.

Sorry to hear about you foot and physio ouch. I hope you find some way to relieve the pain.

Going to avoid eating as long as possible today as have a big meal planned this evening.

Good luck to any saturday fasters!