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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Catsrus · 07/11/2017 17:51

Hi guys :-)

Another original (2012) thread member popping back in. I lost 34lb back in 2012 and got to 9st 4lb, it’s wobbled a few pounds in either direction, but this morning I got on the scales and was dead on 9:4.

I really don’t worry AT ALL about what I eat these days, if I overindulge then I throw in a fast day to compensate. I do fasts for the health benefits, not for weight loss, now.

It really has given me the tools I need to keep a stable weight.

peachypips · 07/11/2017 19:47

I do appreciate people who are experienced coming back on to tell us their successes! It's very encouraging so thank you.

HLBug · 07/11/2017 20:26

Lovely to hear from you Catsrus and thanks for popping in.

HLBug · 07/11/2017 20:30

purple I have a particular soft spot for Birds Eye fish fingers (and potato waffles...they’re waffly versatile Wink) so I’ll let someone else comment on that GrinGrinGrin

FD complete and kitchen closed at about 570 kcals. 2 egg omelette with smoked salmon for lunch then chicken and veg stir fry for dinner. I’ve been cold and hungry all day today so I’ll glad this one is over!

quackingduck222 · 07/11/2017 20:45

That's amazing Cats and great news to hear.

I've had a good day today, made far too much tea and could of done with 1/2 the portion.

I'm really struggling with the cold this year. I'm normally a cold person but it's getting worse.

Having another meal out this week. I normally eat what I want out but I've already looked at the menu and will probably have chicken / steak and a salad.

Ta1kinPeece · 07/11/2017 20:49

waves to catsrus Grin

Ta1kinPeece · 07/11/2017 20:51

quack
Having another meal out this week. I normally eat what I want out but I've already looked at the menu and will probably have chicken / steak and a salad.
The other trick is to get the meal be a mezze / tapas type place as then you can eat lightly but well
or my fave for lunches is to have two starters rather than a main ...

Bestbees · 08/11/2017 07:29

Great to hear lots of oldtimers coming back!
Sounds like lots of successful fasters here. I had a dodgy NFD yesterday. No breakfast good lunch then all the cake and crap. Did swim 50 lengths but still feel disappointed. So working on three yummy nutritious meals a day on nfd to avoided snacking and binging. Started today on poached egg and salmon on wholemeal toast and a banana. Lunch will be a sandwich at 3.30ish (parents evening so school provide). I would normally have my own lunch at 1 then the sandwich bit wont today. Soup for tea.

Any tips for dealing with emotional eating (when i am angry/stressed with kids usually?)

Good luck to everyone fasting today!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2017 07:39

< waves to catsrus Smile > Always lovely when maintainers come back

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 08/11/2017 08:21

Loving the advice and stories from the oldies Grin

Weighed in - 9st 10.1 lbs Grin I was 9st 13.8lbs two days ago (after a bad week I stayed the same) so lost 0.7lb which is good. Have a small tdee and just approx 1000-2000 cal deficit a week so I’m pleased.

purpleviolet1 · 08/11/2017 08:22

That should say 9st 13.1lbs not 9 st 10.1 lbs

SingingGoldfinch · 08/11/2017 10:15

Good work Purple! And sounds like everyone else is doing great too!

Castrus - really interested to read your encouraging words on maintenance! I'm about 3 weeks into mine and am currently doing 6:1 and have so far sts. Do you follow a regular pattern or just throw a fd in if your weight creeps up? I'm 5"10 and currently 9st10 and was 11st4 when I started. I don't really want to lose any more but really don't want to start gaining either!

Bestbees · 08/11/2017 11:07

I would love to hear more about maintaning too as thats what i totally failed at before. I wonder if maybe 6:1 is good but adding in to 5:2 arpund crunch times like holidays?

Ollivander84 · 08/11/2017 11:25

Up a little bit on the scales but overall trend is still down. Off to Pilates Smile

OuchBollocks · 08/11/2017 15:41

FD abandoned here. I was up most of the night was in a&e with the baby who was having breathing difficulties in the wee hours. He's fine (miraculous recovery, made me look like a tit) but I'm shattered and starving. I'm going to have pizza and a beer. Tomorrow is a new day.

purpleviolet1 · 08/11/2017 16:39

@OuchBollocks sorry to hear that, main thing is that LO is well. Just chill and relax tonight , you are right tomorrow is another day

@SingingGoldfinch thank you!!

Catsrus · 08/11/2017 17:10

Waves back to T1P and choc Grin

Re. How to maintain, for me I will try to fast (ie not eat) on days when I’m busy, out and about. I’ll push back eating until I’m home. I do a hobby a couple of afternoons a week, so simply eat around 5pm those days. Due to having a new puppy I’ve not been doing it recently, and dog walking isn’t for as long, so my weight is more around 9:4 than 9:00 (which had become my new normal). So now I just push back eating most days until 2-3pm.

That’s not every day, and I honestly do eat whatever I want, but what I want to eat has generally shifted. I did eat a whole sourdough loaf the other day though (over the course of the whole day!) Wink it was delicious Grin. This was not a problem, it didn’t derail my eating for the week or make me feel guilty, it was a real treat on a miserable day. A few salad days following that soon sorted me out.

I think the key thing for me is a total absence of worry around food now,all excesses can be compensated for, nothing eaten is ever a disaster. I do weigh myself daily though as I need that visual reminder, but again, it’s just a habit now like brushing my teeth, not a big deal, never a huge shock.

All the fat clothes have long gone, I’m a lot fitter, life is good Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2017 19:15

Well done on your SV, peachy

What a shock for you, ouch Flowers but good to hear your lo is ok now

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2017 19:29

If you return to your old WOE, your return to your old weight & waist
so....

Maintenance recommendations:

  • First 2 weeks at goal:
    keep 5:2 WOE unchanged, to make sure weight is stable, within goal range.

  • After this, gradually ease towards maintenance routine, one step at a time
    First, if you still mfp on NFDs, you could stop that and see if you sts on 5:2.
    If that's scary, try mfp on say 2 NFDs for 2 weeks, then if ok stop mfp altogether

Next, drop down to 6:1 for 2 weeks
If you sts, have that as your maintenance plan, but revert to 5:2 if you want to eat more on NFDs, e.g. low TDEE or a heavy social calendar.

  • If you are starting maintenance not long before a vacation period, like Xmas, then it is a good idea to aim to stay at the lower end of your goal range, to give wiggle room

Good habits for Longterm Maintenance:
+ NO snacks or grazing, ever

  • Weigh regularly, at least weekly, preferably more often
    If you gain 4 lb, return immediately to full 5:2

  • We all need breaks for vacation, but before you start, note in your calendar the day you will have your next FD and revert to 5:2 if you have gone above Happy Weight

  • Keep alcohol and sweet treats to sensible amounts, within 20% TDEE
    Try to stay within NHS alcohol guidelines - protect your liver.
    Keep drinking water; eat lots of veg.
    Regularly include beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 08/11/2017 20:37

Sorry to hear that Ouch. Hope your DC is making a good recovery now.

Great to hear about Cats maintance, very useful to know.

3rd day on track and feel really satisfied. I'm actually eating a lot less so that's great.

The funny thing is for me I never used to eat much in the past. Always used to skip meals never ate breakfast EVER. Then I joined SW and it was drummed into me to eat eat eat and I swear my stomach stretched and when I came off started binging. Spoken to many friends who did the exact same. It's strange.

I feel a lot more in control now, and my mind isn't constantly thinking about the next meal.

Ta1kinPeece · 08/11/2017 20:41

I agree with cats about not eating early in the day.
DH always ate a big breakfast.
Over the past couple of years he's stopped.
Both of us only have breakfast on a Sunday
and then a light lunch and a hearty supper

and if we feel a bit blobby then its back to strict 5:2 for a week or two
and everything slots back into place.

Bestbees · 09/11/2017 07:07

I hope your little one is on the mend ouch.

Bad day yesterday as work didnt order food so i basically ate breakfast and then chocolate. I had a sandwich when i got hone at 9pm.

FD today, anyone with me?

1moreRep · 09/11/2017 07:26

hi all- fast day here today

ive had three days of awful workouts at the gym so i need a rest today, i can barely walk (squats and running in a weighted vest on tuesday i’m blaming)

i’m going to try a run/ walk to loosen them up today but i’m doubtful

i agree with earlier poster about not eating too early

SingingGoldfinch · 09/11/2017 07:34

Poor you Ouch! That sounds really scary, I hope your little one is on the mend!

Thanks for the insights Castrus - that's really useful to hear and sounds like you've got into a really relaxed, stress-free maintenance! That's what I aspire to but I'm not there yet as still feeling quite anxious about it and in reality I'm probably eating less overall as a result!

Weigh-in today and I'm down to 9st7 - I'm secretly pleased because this was my ultimate goal (and I can actually say "I'm nine and a half stone" 😃), but also a little surprised as it's come off whilst maintaining. Probably a combination of generally eating less this week due to worries about falling off the wagon and a really good fd yesterday. I think I'll bank it, continue with 6:1 maintenance but maybe take it as a signal that I can relax a bit more and see where that gets me!

SingingGoldfinch · 09/11/2017 07:39

And good luck Thursday fasters - and hope you're aching muscles ease soon 1moreRep!